alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Help Id a penn reel , "Old Penn reel with aftermarket backlash adjustment"
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: Help Id a penn reel , "Old Penn reel with aftermarket backlash adjustment"  (Read 32835 times)
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oldmanjoe
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« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2017, 04:05:04 AM »

I'm wondering if whoever installed it ever got the thing to work.

Do the brake shoes contact the edge of the spool when the eccentric is turned?  It does not look like they would reach.  Also, there are no wear marks on that metal plate plastered to the spool flange.  The brake shoes aren't magnetic, are they?

You could remove the eccentric and shaft then grind a sixteenth off the bronze/brass sleeve from the outside.  Your local hardware store might have a brass cap nut and washer to hold an eccentric lever on.

I'd make sure it's going to work before looking for parts.

-steve

    Beliveve it or not just turning the baer thread shaft with my fingers , puts drag on  the spool .    joe
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 05:30:24 AM by sdlehr » Logged

Grandpa`s word of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
oldmanjoe
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« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2017, 04:29:27 AM »

Have you ever had that nagging feeling that there is something more to a puzzle -- and in the back of your mind you have a slight inkling of the solution -- but cannot tune it in yet?

Woke up this morning at 2:30 -- got to bed at 9:00 last night -- so that is enough sleep -- went upstairs to a box of old Penns -- and pulled out this Squidder 145 with old maroon sideplates.

Never had this reel apart -- but it contains the complete anti-backlash system that Joe has part of -- on his Surfmaster.

When surfcasting, a backlash never happens until the sinker hits the seafloor -- this device senses the loose line -- and stops the spools rotation -- thus preventing a birdsnest -- at least that is my theory.  It is very lightly spring loaded -- as well as super-sensitive.

When I saw the attachment rivits for a bar of some sort on top -- attached to the rings, and the fact that Joe's measurements were mich smaller than my comparisons to an eccentric -- that is when I woke up.

This particular reel works very well -- including the add-on.

At first glance, it is a well engineered and capable mechanism -- with at least 27 parts, plus the spool.

Notice that the spool has a race braized or welded to the side -- and it is very professionally done -- so maybe the replacement spool was an option on some of the reels?

Guess I should do something with it -- like maybe restore it?

This system could also be installed on a OC.

Michael will know much more about these devices, I believe.

I will do more research into who made this -- and I can't go back to sleep now -- it is 4:49 -- and I will not get to bed until 11:00 tonight.

I will do a little more research...

Best,

Fred
 Fred      that was next question about the extra bar on top with the plastic bushings .
you have the whole set up there .   looks like a very unique lever i`m missing .        Now you say this is on a 145 squidder, i have the look at diragram and have not found that attachment.     joe
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 05:31:09 AM by sdlehr » Logged

Grandpa`s word of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
oldmanjoe
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« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2017, 04:37:01 AM »

 I have to work today, will be back later today.     joe
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Grandpa`s word of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
foakes
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2017, 04:51:44 AM »

This is aftermarket, Joe -- not produced at the Penn plant.

So you will not likely find it on a Penn schematic

Likely a niche market for a machinist who used to work for OC or Penn -- doing a good job.

Many of these guys really knew their way around reels.

They probably forgot more about reels than I will ever know -- and they did not miss too much.

You wouldn't tell them what you needed done -- you would tell them what the problem was -- and they would come up with the solution.

These guys were the Tom's, Adam's, Carl's, Ted's, Cal's and Sal's of their day.

We have a lot of talent today, on our little board -- that some might take for granted -- however, History shows us that this stubborn-work-it-out-until-perfect mindset, was with us for many generations before.

Just my opinions...

Best,

Fred
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 06:08:45 AM by foakes » Logged

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Tightlines666
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« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2017, 10:49:44 AM »

Wow Fred!

I can't believe you have a complete/working version of a reel with these exact modifications on your bench.  There must have been an individual or shop that made a few of these.  I agree the mods sedm to be inspired in part by the OC FarKast reels, and were likely aimed at controlling backlash while improving casting dustance when fishing heavier baits from the surf.  Probably occurred sometime when the OC FarKast reels were still popular for durf fushing.  Maybe in the mid 1950s through the 1960s era in the NE region (just a guess).  It seems overly complicated, but ingenious at the same time.  Now I am wondering how well it worked.

Looks like restoring the fuctionality on the origionsl reel in this post is likely a near impossible task.. unless of course soneone wanted to take the time/energy/money to fabricate parts to match those you have on the completed reel.  Looks like a custom spool is needed here (amoung other things).

I am astonished our group found a matching modified reel here.

This post should really be moved somewhere where it is not likely to get lost.. maybe the collectors section?

John
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 10:51:14 AM by Tightlines666 » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2017, 11:55:54 AM »

You're amazing Fred.

So, the line playing off the spool pulls on the wire, the wire pulls the lever, the lever pulls the eccentric, the eccentric pulls the shoe away from the drum.  When the line stops playing off the reel the lever snaps back and the brake shoe stops the spool.  That must be a spring up against the outside of the side plate.  What's the ratchet-looking thing outboard of the spring?  And, why the cross bar?

-steve
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 01:16:44 PM by foakes » Logged
foakes
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« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2017, 01:11:19 PM »

Exactly right, Steve --

That ratchet wheel turns a coil spring similar to a bail spring on a spinner.

The Angler can preset this for surf and weight considerations, line test, and his best judgement for his application.  Try a couple of casts -- make sure performance is optimum -- adjust for more tension or less -- then just start fishing.

What locks the spring-loaded ratchet wheel in place is the slide with a knurled tightening finger screw.  A part of the slide locks into the ratchet wheel.

As soon as the sinker stops forward movement of the line off the reel -- the wire guide snaps back up -- stopping the spool rotation immediately.

Possibly the raised post is for the Angler to have a thumb rest when transitioning from casting to retrieve?

Plus a way to keep the wire forward when starting a retrieve or cast -- by resting one's thumb on the bar and wire -- instead of just the wire.

And possibly for stability and frame integrity.

This would take a little getting used to -- much like driving a manual transmission compared to an automatic.

But it would not take more than a few casts to master it --

And while it may seem complicated -- it is very well built -- well engineered -- and just smooth and dead-simple in operation -- even after 65 years.

If they had these today -- I suspect many folks would be using them for Surf-Fishing, instead of spinners.

The one I have, has been very lightly used.  It will clean up to possibly a 8.5 or 9.  No salt corrosion, excess grease, rust, or issues.

Best,

Fred


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« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 01:20:36 PM by foakes » Logged

Patience...and the rewards that come with it -- need to be experienced...otherwise, it isn't patience!


What's the difference between a worthwhile plan and a vision?

Your good, worthwhile  plan will always keep changing...However, a good vision will always remain constant and unchanging...
Tightlines666
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« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2017, 01:49:11 PM »

I figured all your described functionality out based on the photos, but I am still a bit confused about how the angler ensures that as soon as he starts reeling the brakes will disengage from the spool. I guess its fine as long as there is tension on the line, the wire guides will be forward and the brake shoes will not contact the spool.  If the wire was heavier, one might be able to manually apply increased drag pressure by moving the lever or wires back when the fish tries to make a run for the reef.  Though the automatic engaging nature of the mech combined with the fact that it will retard spool movement in both directions when engaged, does not make it well suited to the task of appling additional drag.  I am intrigued by the notion of a drum brake drag mechasism though.

John
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 02:20:51 PM by Tightlines666 » Logged

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oldmanjoe
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« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2017, 02:14:02 PM »

  Well befor i went to work today ,i saw fred`s pictures .     A picture is worth a thousand words / idears.     when i started reading the posts today , You guy`s nailed it as far as what i was think all day about .         'just to be funny about it '      It is a well design thing for a man with pore thumb control.   I am going to see my father in the next couple day`s and ask him what are the chanches are , that the man that he got the reel from just might have that strange contraption laying in a pickle jar .
   Knowing that for me trying to find a replacement parts is going to be looking for a hen`s tooth in a thousand acker  hay field .  
  Fred    I can not thank you enought for the input and pictures.   I also thank you all who post your input.     I will contune to try to presurve  this pice of history,
   For all that look at this and think that they see a off the shelf part , please say so, i am going to try my best to restore this.     I sure hope there is a pick jar laying around
joe
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Grandpa`s word of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
oldmanjoe
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« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2017, 02:31:42 PM »

I figured all your described functionality out based on the photos, but I am still a bit confused about how the angler ensures that as soon as he starts reeling the brakes will disengage from the spool. I guess its fine as long as there is tension on the line, the wire guides will be forward and the brake shoes will not contact the spool.  If the wire was heavier, one might be able to manyally apply incrwased drag pressure by moving the lever or wires back when the fish tries to make a run for the reef.  Though the automatic engaging nature of the mech combined with the fact that it will retard spool movement in both directions when engaged, does nit make it well suited to the task of appling additionsl drag.  I am intrigued by the notion of a drm brake drag mechasism though.

John




    John  i think the cirkle spring is light enought that if the fish runs toward you, yes the brake is on but you can reel through it .  some thing like a old car with drum brakes will stop better going foward than if you were going in reverse and hitting the brakes .   best way i think it works .    joe
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Grandpa`s word of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
Rancanfish
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« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2017, 03:07:43 PM »

Really cool to see that reel pop up again, Fred.  I agree, it is definitely not a factory rig.  It may be someone that was known by the factory, but aftermarket production anyway. 

I'm not into display reels or I would have kept it.  Very happy to see you kept it for yourself, along with the green reel.
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oldmanjoe
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« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2017, 03:50:50 PM »

Exactly right, Steve --

That ratchet wheel turns a coil spring similar to a bail spring on a spinner.

The Angler can preset this for surf and weight considerations, line test, and his best judgement for his application.  Try a couple of casts -- make sure performance is optimum -- adjust for more tension or less -- then just start fishing.

What locks the spring-loaded ratchet wheel in place is the slide with a knurled tightening finger screw.  A part of the slide locks into the ratchet wheel.

As soon as the sinker stops forward movement of the line off the reel -- the wire guide snaps back up -- stopping the spool rotation immediately.

Possibly the raised post is for the Angler to have a thumb rest when transitioning from casting to retrieve?

Plus a way to keep the wire forward when starting a retrieve or cast -- by resting one's thumb on the bar and wire -- instead of just the wire.

And possibly for stability and frame integrity.

This would take a little getting used to -- much like driving a manual transmission compared to an automatic.

But it would not take more than a few casts to master it --

And while it may seem complicated -- it is very well built -- well engineered -- and just smooth and dead-simple in operation -- even after 65 years.

If they had these today -- I suspect many folks would be using them for Surf-Fishing, instead of spinners.

The one I have, has been very lightly used.  It will clean up to possibly a 8.5 or 9.  No salt corrosion, excess grease, rust, or issues.

Best,

Fred

 I think the cross bar was used as  a positive stop for the wire bale , to brace it for shock and to keep the full pull off the little internal cam and anchor screws on the brake shoes.    Still in the class room and hopefully still awake ..... joe

  After thinking about this ,i am going to correct myself.    The positive stop is used for full brake , the ratchet index  is used to adjust how much brake you want to apply ..     joe
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 11:15:56 AM by oldmanjoe » Logged

Grandpa`s word of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
sdlehr
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« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2017, 04:09:01 PM »

Hey Fred, if you want to sell that reel and contraption, please let me know.

Sid
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Sid Lehr
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oldmanjoe
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« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2017, 04:23:17 PM »

   Sad     Little up date , just got off the phone with my father.  he said that this reel was sitting in the back shelf for a while .   He is not sure who gave it to him .
    Look`s like there is no pickle jar ....  joe
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Grandpa`s word of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
Penn Chronology
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« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2017, 09:43:16 PM »

A few years ago a friend of mine sent me some photos of a very strange Penn modified reel built on a 1950's Squidder 140. He saw the reel at a Tackle Show he atteneded. I had never seen one of these before, so I assumed it was an aftermarket gizmo reel built by a private inventor. I filed away the photos and never thought much of it. It had no Penn connect of papers or a box. So there was not much to go on. Being that it was a One-Off type of reel. I figured I would never see another one. Here are the photos.









Seems like there are now at least three of these strange reels found. It is obviously some kind of anti-backlash device; but, it is sort of cumbersome.

I am in possession of a Penn prototype copy of an Ocean City Far Kast option, built into a Penn Surfmaster 250 by Penn Engineering. As far as I know, I have the only one, the quality is high, better than production. Nothing at all like this reel.

This reel we are showing here does not seem to have the type of quality that would be seen in a Penn Factory Prototype. Now that three have been found, I feel that some deeper research should be attempted and we should all be on the look out for more of these.

Thanks for sharing....
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 09:56:16 PM by Penn Chronology » Logged
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