alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Old, Weird, Historical, and Unusual Spinning Reels --
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
August 12, 2020, 03:35:58 PM *
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Author Topic: Old, Weird, Historical, and Unusual Spinning Reels --  (Read 45158 times)
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Penn Chronology
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« Reply #300 on: December 27, 2019, 06:23:50 PM »

Beautiful collectible. Never seen one of these. The concept is used all over the world.

Alvey in Australia used that concept for every reel from small to big game. They have a interesting stand that allows for the reel to be turned 90 degrees. Been in use in Australia since the 1940's, maybe even earlier.


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* EB--3.jpg (667.96 KB, 1800x1800 - viewed 54 times.)

* EB--5.JPG (1319.31 KB, 2803x2304 - viewed 53 times.)
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oc1
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« Reply #301 on: December 27, 2019, 07:42:10 PM »

Another side cast reel.
-steve
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Midway Tommy
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« Reply #302 on: December 27, 2019, 11:28:16 PM »

Another side cast reel.
-steve

Huh?  Huh? It doesn't cast line from the side. It casts line straight ahead from the face of spool just like any threadline, or as they're called today, open face spinning reel. Then you pivot the spool to reel in line like a single action, or multiplying, fly reel rather than it having a rotating and oscillating spool.   Wink   Whoever originally deemed them as side casters must have tipped one or two too many on night in the Pub.  Grin

Alveys, etc., are kind of cool and interesting reels but they've sure never gained a following in the US.
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Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)
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« Reply #303 on: December 28, 2019, 02:14:30 AM »

Sorry to disagree Tommy, but I'm with Steve on this one - the term sidecast (over here at least) refers to reels that are turned sideways to cast and then returned to the 'in line' position to fish / retrieve by winding the line directly on to the spool. To me spinning reels have a fixed spool with the bail 'spinning' around the spool to lay the line. Having said that - It doesn't really matter what we call it, the Spool Change Co called it a spinning reel and it's a cool reel.  Smiley

Alvey in Australia used that concept for every reel from small to big game. They have a interesting stand that allows for the reel to be turned 90 degrees. Been in use in Australia since the 1940's, maybe even earlier.

I had a quick look at their web site Mike https://alvey.com.au/ - looks like they started in 1920 and are still going strong here after they talked about closing a few years ago.

Mike
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It can't be too difficult - a lot of people do it.
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« Reply #304 on: December 28, 2019, 03:46:45 AM »

It's a classic reel and I'm glad your guys started buying them again so Alvey could stay in business.

What they are called is probably irrelevant.  But, having a rotor going around a fixed spool makes life much easier.  

For both spinning reels and side cast reels, when the line is cast the line twists a full 360 degrees for every loop coming off the spool.  The smaller the spool diameter the more twists there will be per yard of line.

When a rotor wraps line back onto a fixed spool the twists are reversed.  The line is twisted on the cast and then untwisted on the retrieve.

When the sidecast spool is rotated and the line is wound on like a conventional reel, no twist is imparted.  The line is twisted in the cast but it is not untwisted on the retrieve.  With each successive cast more twists are added and they accumulate.  

If you have ever had a line get really badly twisted while trolling a spoon or bait that wants to spin you will know what a mess it makes.  Any bit of slack line will automatically roll up on itself and make a birds nest.  A swivel in the terminal tackle or a live bait that spins may allow the line to untwist a bit on the retrieve, but it is still going to be a mess.  Dealing with the line twists is a big part of mastering a side cast reel.

It should be mentioned that when line is pulled off a spinning reel via the drag the spool turns so there are no twists imparted as line goes out but it still twisted by the rotor as it is retrieved.
 
Then, too, there is the whole issue of gear ratio and inches per turn (IPT) on the retrieve.  A spinning reel with relatively small diameter spool can bump up the IPT using multiplying gears.   A side cast reel has a 1:1 gear ratio.  The Alvey needs a large diameter spool to bump up the IPT.  The IPT = spool diameter x gear ratio x 3.14.

Mike in Australia... I'm sure it has occurred to you that you could easily make a sidecast reel completely from scratch.
-steve

« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 03:57:51 AM by oc1 » Logged
Sharkb8
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« Reply #305 on: December 28, 2019, 03:42:13 PM »

Yes Steve line twist is a problem I usely run two swivels before the Trace it helps a bit and the larger spool dia.helps with line retrive they have also make ones with gear ratios now.


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philaroman
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« Reply #306 on: December 28, 2019, 04:54:04 PM »

what's the other brand...  about as old, or older than Alvey & long gone?

mostly, Bakelite spools w/ big line guides, like the oldest Alvey on the left

I'm thinking 2 short words...  maybe, hyphenated...  maybe, [something] Lite
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Midway Tommy
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« Reply #307 on: December 28, 2019, 06:35:31 PM »

Sorry to disagree Tommy, but I'm with Steve on this one - the term sidecast (over here at least) refers to reels that are turned sideways to cast and then returned to the 'in line' position to fish / retrieve by winding the line directly on to the spool. To me spinning reels have a fixed spool with the bail 'spinning' around the spool to lay the line. Having said that - It doesn't really matter what we call it, the Spool Change Co called it a spinning reel and it's a cool reel.  Smiley

Alvey in Australia used that concept for every reel from small to big game. They have a interesting stand that allows for the reel to be turned 90 degrees. Been in use in Australia since the 1940's, maybe even earlier.

I had a quick look at their web site Mike https://alvey.com.au/ - looks like they started in 1920 and are still going strong here after they talked about closing a few years ago.

Mike

Yes, I know. I'm just being ornery and obstinate  Cheesy  ...... and..... I like giving Steve a little crap once in awhile.  Grin

Seriously, though, I really don't understand why they started calling them side-casters, they should have originally been called pivot foot reels.

Malloch, Farlow and a few others came up with the pivot foot "side-cast" idea, in the 1880s, decades before Alvey was even a gleam in anyone's eye.

Malloch, Farlow, Hardy Match Fisher, Lou Meyers Flo-Line, and a host of others had reel designs so that the spool could be flipped around/over to get rid of line twist. For many it was a simple task that didn't have an effect on drag settings, just loosen a nut and flip the spool over.

There are a few open face spinning reels, though, where the spool rotates and a PUM guides the line on rather than having a non-rotating spool with a rotor and bail wrapping line around the spool. Most of them don't have large line capacities, though

 
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Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)
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« Reply #308 on: December 28, 2019, 08:12:54 PM »

I seem to remember a version that you could flip the spool over so the line came off the other face as you cast out .
This reversed the line twist as described already ,and evened it out.
The handles were able to slide through the spool without fouling the backplate , and appeared on the other side so you could reel in no problem ?
You would cast three or four times ,then just as the twist was getting bad ,flip the spool over and reverse the twist  with the same ammount of casts
All the time retrieving the line like a fly reel .
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« Reply #309 on: December 28, 2019, 09:35:45 PM »

Seriously, though, I really don't understand why they started calling them side-casters, they should have originally been called pivot foot reels.  
Yeah, that would make more sense.

Funny, because things like the Cuban YoYo and the Coke Bottle reel (sorry, you'll have to google them) do not accumulate line twists.  When you cast (or swing the bait around over your head and fling it), it makes twists as the loops come off the spool (or Coke bottle) just like a sidecast or spinning reel.  Then, when you wind the line back on the spool with the line slipping through your fingers, your hand acts just like the rotor on a spinning reel.  You unwhittingly undo those twists put in the line while casting.
-steve
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 09:44:01 PM by oc1 » Logged
Sharkb8
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« Reply #310 on: December 28, 2019, 10:37:23 PM »

Philaroman some of the reel companies who made side cast reels was Alpha and steallite. The older ones we're wooden spools like in the picture above.

Kim
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« Reply #311 on: December 29, 2019, 12:01:08 AM »

thanks, I was thinking of steallite (SteeLite?)
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« Reply #312 on: December 29, 2019, 09:17:38 AM »

I only have a slight knowledge about Alvey and that knowledge came from Ray Hodges. He would send me example of them from time to time. Ray sent me a promotional video from the company that is over an hour long explaining how Alvey reels are in used all the different styles of fishing. From bank fishing in rivers, to surf fishing, to big game fishing and any style in between. It is amazing how they have stood the test of time and crossed so many different styles of fishing with one simply concept.

Here is a small Alvey sent to me by Ray Hodges. The spool is Bakelite and the frame is stainless steel. I do not know how old it is.

Very happy to see the amount of discussion this has caused.





* Alvey--early 3 inch Bakelite spool model 004 - Copy.JPG (376.63 KB, 1605x1279 - viewed 52 times.)

* Alvey--early 3 inch Bakelite spool model 006.JPG (1243.82 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 53 times.)

* Alvey--early 3 inch Bakelite spool model 010.JPG (1170.57 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 56 times.)

* Alvey--early Australian 3 inch spool Bakelite Model 008.JPG (650.85 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 52 times.)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 09:25:08 AM by Penn Chronology » Logged
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« Reply #313 on: December 29, 2019, 10:25:39 AM »

These Alvey reels are a perfect example of the truth that a reel is just a mechanism to retrieve and store line as a fish is landed.

Simple, solid, proven.

Basic and competent.

Best,

Fred
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In life, be flexible, willing to listen to others, willing to change your mind based on your good judgement -- that is how progress is made, and new horizons are discovered.  When the winds of change blow -- A flexible limb moves and thrives -- a stiff and stubborn limb just snaps.
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« Reply #314 on: December 29, 2019, 11:30:04 AM »

I have the all-steel 50's(?) Olympic big no-frills (300m?) & 100m w/ tension adjustment (for clicker?) & both, 1:1 & geared 2:1
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