alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Do spiral wrapped rods cast differently?
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: Do spiral wrapped rods cast differently?  (Read 3047 times)
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Aiala
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« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2017, 11:05:46 AM »

The mere thought (let alone sight) of an acid-wrapped rod causes my OCD to go supernova.  Shocked  Roll Eyes  Tongue

But of course, as the French say, "Chacun à son goût"Smiley

~A~
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I don't suffer from insanity... I enjoy every minute of it!  Cheesy
Rivverrat
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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2017, 01:34:59 PM »

Oh man I had the hardest time looking at my rod while using it. But I eventually got over it
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Tiddlerbasher
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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2017, 01:36:44 PM »

Oui mon brave Cheesy
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Rivverrat
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2017, 05:28:54 PM »

The only downside to acid rods is that they are difficult to bundle up when packing up to go because the guides get in way!

Ive noticed this my when I go to pick up a fistfull of my rods if my acid wrapped rod is in that fist full it doesnt work all that well.... Jeff
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 04:45:41 PM by Rivverrat » Logged
alantani
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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2017, 08:10:30 PM »

i have a bunch, but it works out ok. 
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Jeri
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« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2018, 01:51:35 AM »

So how many distance casters switched to spiral wraps?
It's a decades old cocept that never caught on. Tournament bass guys don't use it hardly anyone one does but it crops up about every decade then just fades away. If it works for you great but for most it didn't and that's why you don't see it around much.

Quite a few people bought them, and were exceptionally happy with the performance of the rods, especially as they gained the benefit from loss of torque, and the fact that they didn't lose distance.

The whole issue is 'public perception', and have seen this in many concepts that have been formulated and brought to the market place, where if it doesn't meet with what the public percieves as appropriate, then it gets a negative review - which is usually based on fiction. Have seen this extensively with surf rods using braid as main line. The public perception is for big rings on a surf spinning/casting rod, so when Fuji brought out their Low Riders, the perception that small guides would not work or would reduce distance with braid. When in fact some very knowledgeable people proved that the smaller guides did work and actually offered a small increase in distance. The concept 'bombed' in most English speaking parts of the world, but has been whole heartedly accepted in many other places in the world.

It is all about perception. Personally, if I was using any rod with a multiplier type reel I would opt for acid wrapped.

Cheers from sunny Africa

Jeri
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« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2018, 01:12:14 PM »

It is great to be in a safe space where we can have civil discussions about such highly controversial issues (1/2  Cheesy  )

Regarding casting distance,  the guides serve two purposes.  First, they transfer the load to the rod when initiating the cast.   Having the guides rotate around the rod is a disadvantage here.  Second, as the cast is in progress,  guides reduce friction by  keeping the line from slapping against the blank.   But the line slapping into the guides also introduces friction.  So it is a balancing act to have the right number of guides with the right ring sizes the right distance from the blank with the right amount of spacing.  Spiral wrap is at a disadvantage here as well.  I guess it is possible  to minimize the disadvantage with careful design.  But it will be trickier to get right.   The heavier the object being cast, the less noticeable any difference from the guide orientation should be.


Regarding spiral wraps overall,  for the type of fishing I do,  they are a minor net-minus.

With a traditional wrap rod,  the guides tend to get less beat up/loosened/broken in an abusive environment.     Traditional wrap rods are easy to rest on  the deck with the guides up and will stay that way.  They are also easy to stow and remove from under-gunnel rod racks.   It is pretty much impossible to lay a acid/spiral wrapped rod on the deck without scraping the some of the guides.   The spiral transition guides catch on everything.  Try getting a spiral wrapped rod  out of a crowded gunnel rack in a hurry when you run up on a boil and have a serious case of the yips.

The point of a spiral wrap is to allow you to fish with a reel on the top of the rod without having to fight against radial (twisting)  load.   With a traditional setup,  as long as the guides are on the same plane as the line, the only radial load will be from misalignment in the spine, which should be pretty negligible.  However if the line is being pulled off-plane,  the force against of the side of the guides  will manifest as radial force, until the rod flips over.   With proper technique, and a sufficiently long foregrip,  you can use your forearm to brace against  this radial load.     I do not find this tiring with  traditional-guide setups using  up to 10 lbs of drag for long runs and  25 lbs for  short bursts.  But I don't do the big tuna thing with long runs at 30+ lbs drag and railing the rod.   I would suspect that  the spiral wrap advantage would be greatest here.   I would also think that there would be more issues with radial load  with a shorter and/or stiffer rod, but I am not as certain about this.


  I read a post somewhere extolling the virtues of spiral wrap for trolling with those long soft rods that are used with downriggers for salmon.   Not for playing the fish, but  for keeping the rod from flipping around in the rod holder  and the reel ending up underneath.
 


In summary,   spiral wrapping has advantages and disadvantages.  The main advantage is in situations where you need to do more work than you would like to to keep the rod from twisting.    The greater the load, the more likely that this benefit will be valuable.   The downside is in having guides sticking out  every-which way on your rod affecting durability and ease of use, and  a higher possibility  of building a rod that does not  cast as well as it could.

YMMV
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richard
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« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2018, 03:10:08 PM »

I think someone Dual? makes a two speed reel that you wind backwards for low gear.If you had one on a conventional ringed rod you could cast ,jig and fight smaller(low drag) fish in the normal way, rings and reel on top.As soon as you hook that monster Tuna you flip the rod over.You now have the reel and rings where you want them to avoid rod twist , and low gear (with the handle going forwards) not backwards.Sure its on the left now but that might even help if the right arm is already tired. A fairly narrow spool would help line lay ,but otherwise you lay the line like a fly reel.Something the size of an Hx Avet would cast and hold 80/100 lb braid.30 lb of drag would be comforting😀
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« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2018, 06:06:09 PM »

jurelometer,  good post.  I agree with everything you've stated. However the apparrent negatives based on logical thought dont seem play out when an acid wrap guide lay out is done right. I make no claims of understanding why this is because I dont. Just looking at a blank wrapped this way one has to think that there is no way it could cast as well as a standard wrapped rod. Only rods Ive seen that didnt had obvious guide spacing & lay out issues.

Like your self for my fishing on the river I dont believe I will gain much benefit from it.... Jeff
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 02:21:12 PM by Rivverrat » Logged
droppedit
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« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2018, 04:11:21 PM »

I've made a number of spiral wrapped rods over the years. All I can really say is those that use them love them. Up here in the NorthEast they are pretty popular on the head boats that jig for cod and pollack but it seems that each builder has their own theory on how to space and size the transition guides. I've seen some that have a #20 guide then drop down to a single #10 transition guide then have 5-6 #12's on the bottom, go figure. I'd think that would be way too radical and cause too much friction. After wrapping about 20 spiral rods I finally decided I'd see what the hype was about and did an 8' very slow action blank with Fuji Brlrg guides (seeing that these were on hand). I did the #20 then 2 #16's for the transition then 4 #12's. I tried spacing so I'd get the transition with the least amount of angle to keep the friction down. The big test was underhand casting a 10oz jig from the pulpit. I had a Progear 454 on it with about 50 feet of 50lb leader tied with a uni to uni to 50lb braid. I did get decent casts from it but I really wasn't that impressed. I guess I'm too much old school. I tore the rod down after the season and re-wrapped conventional and it is always my go to rod. I feel that I get more distance (maybe 15-25 feet) conventional. Does that make that much difference when you are fishing 250' down, not really but I do have fun aiming at seagulls.

Dave




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