Antiques / collectable when do you classify reels under this category ?

Started by SilverRidge, April 03, 2018, 04:00:10 PM

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SilverRidge

My collection is older model Daiwa spin reels, 500c, 700c, 1000c, SS-1 etc etc, as an amateur collector or as my little lady calls it " accumulator " always keep alert as to pricing, trends, popularity of various brand names, in the collection are a few Orvis spinnig reels, was interested in acquiring a model 50a recently and was totally shocked at the price the 50a is going for, bidding starts normally at $80 and runs to $125 in a few hours, one reel classified in excellent condition sold for $250'. ( not a misprint ) $140-175 is not unheard of, is this reel getting so rare as to demand those kinda dollars, did I miss something? My moderate collection of  fine DAM spin reels has stablized price wise in recent months. Any ideas. ?

Paul

oc1

Antiques are at least 100 years old.  Vintage means something that is outdated and clearly not modern.  Some say vintage stuff has to be at least 20 years old.  Anything can be collectable if someone wants to collect it.
-steve

Midway Tommy

Most of the quality Italian made ultra-lights bring a premium. Prices on the 50A have been on the upward trend for about the last 10 years, mainly because they're somewhat rare and some guys still use those that show exterior wear. The 75A, because it is even more rare, brings half again as much as the 50A. The same can be said for the Alcedo Micron, Cargem Mignon 33, Cargem Lancer 23, Ted Williams & Pescador 300, TW 310 & 350 and Cardinal 3/33 variations, etc. Some people want to put them on the shelf because they're kind of rare, especially those in excellent condition, and some guy's, like me, still use their favorite models, exclusively, and keep a spare or two, or more, because they'll never be made again. While they have somewhat of a following, the Dam ULs haven't broken into that higher collectible price range quite yet, but as with any of the older quality ultra-lights, their price will continue to rise.

Collect-ability depends on rarity, availability and the eyes of the beholder. What I might consider collectible may not be seen that way by someone else. Many Japanese made reels are much more collectible to the Japanese than they are to the rest of the world. The same can be said about most reels and their country of origin, except for maybe the really cheaply made models. To be considered antique a reel has to be at least 100 years old. We're finally getting a few spinning reels that qualify as antiques.
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

oc1


SilverRidge

Agreed, supply and demand, Tommy made a good point, pricing is reflected by people that have no clue as to gauging the condition of the piece of tackle be it a rod or reel, "the eye of the beholder" determines the cost. Experience as a fisher person doesnt mean a thing ...  The price of what they saw the item on the net determines what they want on the item ...they wouldn't know an Orvis reel from a piece of toilet paper. Such is the world we deal in ....
Example .......

I had an interest locally in an Orvis reel, person met me at a diner, his interest was swaping for one of my Daiwa UL 500Cs, showed me the reel which he stated he would either sell on the net for $100 or swap for equal worth. Looked at the reel and said your joking aren't you? You have the reel in your auto, this reel is a bad joke, rust, corrosion, bent bale, this wouldn't even classify as parts reel, anyway make along story short, he asked what I Would give him, told him he was a deceitful person trying to sell that piece of crap to the public and wasting my time, I wouldn't use that piece of junk as a boat anchor. Funny thing he never seemed upset, strange people, he knew about fishing and the 500c he wanted ... Gotta be careful nowadays..

Florida Cracker

Quote from: SilverRidge on April 03, 2018, 04:00:10 PM
My collection is older model Daiwa spin reels, 500c, 700c, 1000c, SS-1 etc etc, as an amateur collector or as my little lady calls it " accumulator " always keep alert as to pricing, trends, popularity of various brand names, in the collection are a few Orvis spinnig reels, was interested in acquiring a model 50a recently and was totally shocked at the price the 50a is going for, bidding starts normally at $80 and runs to $125 in a few hours, one reel classified in excellent condition sold for $250'. ( not a misprint ) $140-175 is not unheard of, is this reel getting so rare as to demand those kinda dollars, did I miss something? My moderate collection of  fine DAM spin reels has stablized price wise in recent months. Any ideas. ?

Paul
I have one in near mint condition with the original box. I used it a few times and put it back in it's box. I had no idea they were going for prices like that, but I wouldn't sell it due to the person who have it to me passed away decades ago and it has sentimental value.

SilverRidge

Yes sir, nothing is more valuable then something of sentimental value, not for sale, you can't put a price on an item given to a person by an old dear friend, memories are more important than the all mighty dollar IMHO ..

Gfish

Terms that'er used: Antique, Collectable, Rare, Vintage, etc. where would you find the official/right definitions for these when it comes to fishing tackle or other sporting goods? Seems like alota people just say what sounds good/marketable to them(me, sometimes)." Collectable" is the only one that sounds subjective...
Not sayin I don't believe yours Steve for antique and vintage, and Tommy for collectible, and I'm gonna go with that for now.

Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

Midway Tommy

The use of the term "vintage" in fishing reels has been an ongoing discussion for years over at ORCA. Vintage originated in the wine industry in conjunction with their harvest and production dates. Recently, though, most dictionaries have expanded the definition to include older items of various types along with its circa.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of using "vintage" for anything other than wine, but, if I do, I add the approximate time period, i.e. circa 1955, etc. That's why I have gotten into the habit of using "collectible" in conjunction with fishing reels rather than "vintage". Some reels are more collectible than others so that's where subjectivity comes into play.  :) Just because I wouldn't spend $5 on a certain reel doesn't mean someone else wouldn't spend $25 on that same reel. I see scenarios like that here, over at ORCA and regularly on da'Bay.  :)

Now, with that said, the hypocrite that I am types the term "vintage" whenever I'm looking for fishing reels that are more than ten years old, mainly because I have come to realize that that is how the majority of collectors and sellers describe their wares.  ;D  
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

Gfish

Sounds right: "time peroid" or perhaps "era", for vintage. Some great reels change very little over the production time peroid such as the MG 300, or Long Beach 60, but there are little tweaks that can identify the vintage.
Gotta Long Beach 60 that's pristine---never had line on it. To me that's very "collectible", but I can't tell the "vintage". Time'll tell though, there's clues, such as the sticker on the box: printed little square white thing sayin: "PTEF 28.00". Then again, is that the original box? Noticed on the "bay" the price goes up for reels that have the box, relative to the same ones without one.
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

Bill B

I tend to ignore the words "Vintage" or "collectible" when searching for my Reels.  I think of these words as "fluff".  I try to look at the item as presented and determine it's worth to me based on what I see, examples would be: what it is, condition, does it fill a slot in the collection, and knowledge about the product.  Using GFish's example of a LB 60, if it has a waffle clicker or picture tail plate or no parts numbers or other clues, then I know it was built 1950ish or older.  LB's are not a big interest to me, so I would not be spending a lot, however others may pay more based on their wants or needs.  Bill
It may not be very productive,
but it's sure going to be interesting!

Swami805

If you're collecting knowledge is key. For ebay you're better off ignoring the description and hoping there's good pictures. The words rare,vintage, collectable are almost meaningless. There's a few sellers that know what they're selling but most are clueless.
I have a friend who collects hot wheels. He's been buying them for 30+ years. Just the ones he sees in every store he goes into pretty much. Leaves them unopened and stores them in big plastic bins. His collection has been valued in 6 figures. Some came as promotions for some product or something,never paid more than a few bucks. His knowledge of hot wheels is insane, every subtle nuiance matters. I guess hot wheels are big in Japan.
My older brother is into Walkman, yeah those cassette players. He restores them buying, selling like fishing reels. Who knew?
Value is an arbitrary thing depending on who you ask. Gold is a great example, not very useful for much but it's shines.
Do what you can with that you have where you are

swill88

Quote from: Swami805 on April 07, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
If you're collecting knowledge is key. For ebay you're better off ignoring the description and hoping there's good pictures. The words rare,vintage, collectable are almost meaningless. There's a few sellers that know what they're selling but most are clueless.
I have a friend who collects hot wheels. He's been buying them for 30+ years. Just the ones he sees in every store he goes into pretty much. Leaves them unopened and stores them in big plastic bins. His collection has been valued in 6 figures. Some came as promotions for some product or something,never paid more than a few bucks. His knowledge of hot wheels is insane, every subtle nuiance matters. I guess hot wheels are big in Japan.
My older brother is into Walkman, yeah those cassette players. He restores them buying, selling like fishing reels. Who knew?
Value is an arbitrary thing depending on who you ask. Gold is a great example, not very useful for much but it's shines.

Think I learned that in Econ 109.  Good summation Sheridan, thanks.

steve


Penn Chronology

Great words, Vintage, collectible, antique and my all time most over used favorite,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, RARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                        There are regular definitions for all these words. The word Vintage can have multiple meanings according to the Webster dictionary.

""VINTAGE--> vintage. adjective. 1 of wine : of, relating to, or produced in a particular vintage. 2 : of old, recognized, and enduring interest, importance, or quality : classic.""
                       So, with this kind of vague definition, the word Vintage can be used many different ways and still be considered being correctly used. I like to use it with a date or time era; but it can just mean OLD.

""COLLECTIBLE-->an object that is collected by fanciers; especially : one other than such traditionally collectible items as art, stamps, coins, and antiques. The dolls are collectibles.""
                      Here we see that any particular thing that gets defined and accumulated by people can fall into the Collectible category. Absolutely anything can become a Collectible.

''ANTIQUE--> a collectible object such as a piece of furniture or work of art that has a high value because of its considerable age.""
                        Pretty vague. I have seen definitions that say an item has to be 100 years old to be considered an antique but I do not feel that way. I feel that the classification of being a true "Antique" must be based on the item in question. If an item is 100 years old it will certainly be considered an antique or at least more than old enough to be an antique; but, in the world of car collecting I feel any car that is pre-w=WW II would be considered an antique car. So antiques, in my opinion, can be variable ages.

""RARE--> seldom occurring or found : uncommon.""
                        Here is the word that most annoys me. I see sellers using this word all the time. Every time I use it myself I feel that I am making a very important judgment call. Sometimes a production item can become Rare because all that were made were mostly used, abused and now they are hard to find. That is a really tough call because next week a bunch of them can come out of the woodwork and it is not Rare anymore. I like to think that an item that is truly Rare, falls into that category because of certain known factors. I know that Penn Model F and Model K reels are truly Rare. I know their production numbers from when they were first made, I know they were heavily used and I have watched the markets for over ten years and have seen them in very limited numbers.


                            Basically all these words have meaning that can be convoluted by sellers. The most important thing all buyers must understand is that old saying, "Buyer Beware". Know what you are buying before you buy it. 
                         

fishmeluck

Antique, collectible, vintage, and rare mean nothing to me when I decide I want something. Price matters, though. If I want it, I shop for it, looking for a bargain or a good value at least. For example, I really wanted to try some Newell reels but realized quickly that they seemed to be overpriced compared with many newer star drag reels. Refusing to overpay, I found a Newell C220-5 for $100, serviced it myself, tried it out and liked it. Now I have five, with upgrades because I like them ;D. It's hard to say that Newells are collectible except for maybe the oddballs, the clear ones, the red ones, etc. In my opinion, people like Newells because they are light, the graphite spools are light, they cast well, they are easy to service, and parts that need replacing such as bearings and drag washers are readily available and inexpensive. Newell went out of business, so finding nice ones is getting harder, but I would not say that Newell reels are rare. They do have a following, however, and should I decide to sell mine, I expect to recoup most of the cost of buying and upgrading them.

That being said, I'm sick and tired of seeing ads using the word "vintage" to describe fishing reels for sale. In my opinion fishing reel ads invoking the label "vintage" are not worth the time it takes to open and read them. Almost invariably, the reel is not rare, collectible, antique, or even a bargain. Usually, it is old, in need of service or repair, and corroded  ::).

That is not to say that an old reel cannot be a good value or a bargain. It might even be rare, collectible, or an antique. However, if any of that is true, you will generally see it reflected in the asking price and the fact that you cannot find it for sale anywhere else for less. Whereas, if you see "vintage" in the description, you can be 99% sure that the seller is savvy enough to know that it is NOT rare, collectible, an antique, a good value, or a bargain, and the seller is just trying to manipulate your perception of the item with the word "vintage"  >:(.
Give a man a fish and he will have fish for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.