Penn 'Senator' 6/0 - How Old?

Spyderman · June 18, 2018, 04:12:40 PM

I recently picked up a Penn 'Senator' 6/0 that you'd think someone had painted it green.

Quite a coating of verdigris that necessitated a soaking of a lot of the parts in the old vinegar bath. As I cleaned up the parts, I noticed a few things that I hadn't seen before in 6/0 reels I've refurbished in the past. For instance, the spool is not a solid piece of bronze, but rather a sort of press fit assemblage, with the part number '29-114' stamped onto the spool spindle. It's of a substantial gauge, but not turned from a piece of solid brass.

The rings for the reel do not have part numbers stamped on their inside surfaces, and they're made of a noticeably thicker gauge metal than the newer 6/0s rings. Same for the reel foot, no numbers stamped on the foot bottom, and the gauge of metal is noticeably heavier than newer 6/0s I've worked on. Other un-numbered parts include: star drag adjuster, reel handle screw, eccentric jack, eccentric lever, and the pinion yoke.

Other interesting parts include the dog spring (has a tiny 90 degree bend on one end that appears to mesh with a tiny slot in the reel plate), the brass click spring is held in place by a single rivet and it sits in a 'groove' in the plate, the clicker button isn't a smooth dome, but more of a prominence rising from the circumference of the button, and the knob on the handle does not have a press-fit oiling button on it, just an opening exposing the rivet.

I've attached a few photos to help with identification. The only part I replaced is one of the post screws on the non-crank side plate that was horribly buggered and seized in the post. Everything else was cleaned, inspected for excessive wear and re-assembled, with fresh grease and oil. The reel is as smooth as can be and is quite stout. Thanks for any and all wisdom and comments.

Spyderman · June 18, 2018, 04:15:38 PM

A few more photos of parts:

Spyderman · June 19, 2018, 04:37:55 PM

And two pictures of the handle:

1badf350 · June 19, 2018, 06:02:11 PM

Its got me scratching my head with some numbered parts and non numbered parts. Im just gonna guess 1949-50? The handle grasp looks funky like its been replaced. Maybe an earlier reel that has newer replacement parts due to breakage?

Spyderman · June 20, 2018, 11:09:15 AM

Thanks Chris. Yeah, I'm leaning toward a reel that someone may have cobbled together from some old parts they may have had around. The heavier gauge metal used on the rings and the reel foot interested me most. Kinda' like a lot of things manufactured, initially stout pieces that gradually give way to thinner, and presumably cheaper components, to keep costs in check, and profits up.

Gfish · June 20, 2018, 12:33:36 PM

Does the knob look like it ever had a spring/ball-oiler press fitted into it? I'd probably wanna fit a cork into it, to keep saltwater & grime oudda there.

Maybe it's just me, but the dog looks kinda shortened. I'd be interested in seeing how the dog-spring fits into the side-plate.

1badf350 · June 20, 2018, 01:36:02 PM

Post pics of the rings and stand

Spyderman · June 20, 2018, 11:48:17 PM

Chris, pictures of inside of non-handle side rings and reel foot. There are thread impressions from being secured to a rod, but I can't see where a stamped part number would've been rendered unrecognizable.

Spyderman · June 20, 2018, 11:56:50 PM

Quote from: Gfish on June 20, 2018, 12:33:36 PM
Does the knob look like it ever had a spring/ball-oiler press fitted into it? I'd probably wanna fit a cork into it, to keep saltwater & grime oudda there.

Hard to tell, but I imagine there would've been one press-fit in from factory. I'd love to find some of the larger press-fit oiler inserts. I've got hundreds of the smaller size oiler inserts, that fit into the handle side plates and the smaller knobs, but none of the larger ones that would fit a knob this size.

Bill B · June 21, 2018, 03:05:40 AM

I'm thinking a post war reel, in a second generation configuration, maybe later than 49-50, possibly as late as 53. Penn started using part numbers after the war. But it was not an overnite switch. All the non numbered parts would have been used and as they were used up numbered parts would start to be used. You have a three piece spool which does not do well with mono line. If you do use mono make sure you put down some Dacron line to cushion the spool when the mono starts to squeeze the spool. If you don't bad things will happen and you will be looking for a new spool. Bill

1badf350 · June 21, 2018, 11:08:06 AM

Spyderman are you in Rockville Md?

Spyderman · June 21, 2018, 11:55:01 AM

Yes, close to Olney and Norbeck Country Club.

1badf350 · June 21, 2018, 06:10:21 PM

Oh funny. We've met LOL

Penn Chronology · June 28, 2018, 05:35:59 AM

QuoteThe heavier gauge metal used on the rings and the reel foot interested me most. Kinda' like a lot of things manufactured, initially stout pieces that gradually give way to thinner, and presumably cheaper components, to keep costs in check, and profits up.

I cannot say 100%; but, I suspect the parts you see as a heavier gauge base metal are probably German Silver parts. The chrome takes on a different hue when German Silver is the base metal. At least that is the way I see the old German Silver parts from the late 1940's or early 50's..