alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Shakespeare 2062-Penn 712 Comparison
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: Shakespeare 2062-Penn 712 Comparison  (Read 265 times)
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Midway Tommy
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« on: December 23, 2019, 07:30:44 PM »

Awhile back I said that I planned on doing a Shakespeare 2062 and Penn 712 side-by-side comparison, and then a couple of weeks ago I mentioned that it was in the works and would be posted fairly soon. I completed the task so I'll go through it now. I'll also post the same comparison over in the Penn category for those that are interested in Penn Spinning reels.

I decided to compare the 2062 & 712 because they both were introduced about the same time, the 2062 in 1963 and the 712 in 1964, were both considered light/medium size reels, had similar line capacities with the 2062 advertised as 6# 375 yds, 8# 235 yds 10# 200 yds and the 712 advertised as 6# 250 yds, 8# 200 yds, 10# 180 yds, 12# 150 yds, and with advertised weights of 11.4 oz for the Shakespeare 2062 and 12.75 oz for the Penn 712. I've always thought that Shakespeare spinners of that era haven't received the respect and following they deserve compared to that of the Penns. Now, others that view this can be aware of the similarities and make up their own mind.

This is what they looked like when I opened them up. They weren't terribly grungy but it was obvious they hadn't been serviced in quite awhile. As you can see the design is quite similar.

   

After complete disassembly I followed my normal routine of wiping off excess grease with a rag and soaking all of the unpainted metal parts in lacquer thinner. All of the plastic and painted metal parts were scrubbed with Original White Goop and washed in warm water with Dawn. All parts soaked in lacquer thinner are wire brushed or burnished to remove any possible film that may remain. From here on the Shakespeare 2062 will be on the left and the Penn 712 will be on the right. Lubrication will be Super Lube grease and synthetic oil. Here we see all the parts cleaned and ready to reassemble. It is quite noticeable that both reels have nearly the same number and type parts.


I almost always start, when feasible and before my hands get greasy, by installing all of the bail parts on the rotor. Here you can see they have practically the same part setup. Bail trip levers are similar, bails and bail arms are similar, both have rolling line guides with the 2062's being chrome plated and the 712's being carbide, and both have a single bail spring on the line guide side. I always use ArmorAll for bail spring lubrication because oil and/or grease attract too much dirt and gum them up quickly.


Here I compared rotor diameters. They're both the same diameter. The 712 rotor appears to be a little bit deeper, though.


Here you can see the rotors with all of their bail and trip mechanism parts installed. The Penn bail has a tapered conical area to guide the line into the line roller. While I'm not sure how important that is because the line always seems to make it to the line guide, Shakespeare's bail doesn't have that feature.


Both reels have a six washer drag stack with similar design. The Shakespeare spool is painted cast aluminum alloy and has a metal click dog and spring. The Penn spool is brushed aluminum and has a plastic click dog/spring mechanism. The Shakespeare fiber washers are leather that are supposed to be oiled. The Penn washers are hard fiber of some type. The Shakespeare washers are larger in diameter so there is more drag surface when in use. Both drag stacks are kept in place with a C ring.
 

Here you can see the backs of the spools and the spool click mechanisms. Both are easy to hear when line is being played out.


The crank handles have a similar design with the flip over feature but the Shakespeare handle can be completely disassembled and is a little finer/lighter in design. The Penn handle is larger, heavier and cannot be taken apart, so if something breaks one has to buy an entire handle. The Penn knob has an oil port for lubrication.



With all that done it's time to work on the body. Whenever I can I start with the anti-reverse mechanism. Both reels have a ratchet gear anti-reverse mechanism. Their lever parts are almost identical. Penn's is a little more complicated with the use of an extra spring. Shakespeare's dog is steel and held on with a clip, and Penn's dog is brass and secured with a screw.


Here are both lever mechanisms completely installed.


Now it's time to install the pinion worm gear. Both reels have steel worm gears and both have shielded metal ball bearings. The 2062 bearing is retained by an internal spring clip. The bail trip stud is molded as part of the body. The 712 bearing has a brass retaining plate with three screws. The bail trip stud is part of that plate. You can also see that both reels have oilite bushings that support the rear of the worm gear, which is a great quality feature. The main gear handle bushing on the Shakespeare is steel. The main gear handle bushing on the Penn is oilite bronze.


Time to install the rotor cups. Both rotors are retained by washers and nuts. The Shakespeare washer has a tab that bends up against the nut to keep it from loosening.


Next I'll install the main gear. The Shakespeare has a steel gear. The ratchet gear is removal and could easily be replaced if damaged. It also has a brass spring washer between the ratchet gear and shaft bushing. The Penn gear is brass, as is the ratchet gear. The Penn ratchet gear is pressed onto the shaft and not, itself, replaceable. The Penn main gear bushing has a flange so there's no need for a washer there.


Now it's time to install the main shaft and oscillation arm. Both are the same concept with a slightly different design. Both arms attach to the rear of the main shaft with a small screw/bolt. The Shakespeare arm is steel and has a washer that rides between the arm and gear. The Penn arm is brass. It has a flanged washer that goes between the arm and gear. The flange rides in the elongated slot in the oscillation arm. Clearly there were different engineering designs in this instance. The Penn gear is larger in diameter than the Shakespeare gear. The elongated slot compensates for larger diameter gear and placement. The click gear and bushing on the Shakespeare main shaft is steel and the under spool washer is leather. The click gear and bushing on the Penn main shaft is brass and the under spool washer is teflon.


At this point I was starting to notice that the Penn 712 seemed to be somewhat heavier than the Shakespeare 2062. I started wondering if a Penn 714 would have a better comparison candidate. I don't have a 714 but the 714Z is exactly the same reel so to satisfy my curiosity I got mine out to compare sizes. The 714Z is quite a bit smaller and has a push button spool so it wouldn't have been a good comparison. It does, though, have the same internal mechanism design and parts. Here's a shot of all three side-by-side. You can see how much smaller the 714Z is.


It's time to finish up and install the side plates, handles, spools and drag knobs. The main difference here is the Shakespeare side plate has three small screws around the perimeter and the Penn has one larger screw in the center. The Penn side plate has a raised rib around the perimeter to help eliminate dirt infiltration. The Shakespeare side plate is flat on the inside edge. The Shakespeare has external provisions to oil the main gear shaft and pinion/bearing. Both holes have removable screws. The Penn has an oil port on the main gear shaft, only.  


Here you can see the oil ports.


Assembly is complete and everything is back together. Here are both reels side-by-side.



I found it very disappointing to discover that back in the day Penn's pants were on fire. To coin a phrase that has been used quite frequently in the Nation's Capital lately, they clearly exhibited lack of candor in their advertising. They claimed that the 712 weighs 12.75 oz. To meet that advertised weight the spool and drag knob both had to be removed, which in my mind is very miss leading. The reel canít be fished without a spool and/or drag knob. The reel actually weighs 15.0 oz with spool and drag knob attached.




The Shakespeare 2062 weighs 11.3 oz.


As I have suspected for quite some time, thereís really not a whole lot of difference in design and/or quality between these Shakespeare and Penn reels. Both are high quality reels and I donít think one is superior over the other. Personally, if I were going to fish a front drag spinner I would probably pick the Shakespeare 2062 over the Penn 712 for no other reason than it is almost 4 oz lighter.  
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 07:43:09 PM by Midway Tommy » Logged

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Alto Mare
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2019, 08:08:04 PM »

Nice tutorial Tommy, as usual.
They are very close but I believe the Penn is a better reel.
Of course I donít have the Shakespeare, but do fish the Penn little guys often.
The slot on the oscillating arm is a much better design, makes the reel much smoother.
The gears are larger and also of better material, might be why the extra weight.
Thanks for the comparison Tom, both are great reels, but Iím going only by what I see on the Shakespeare.

Sal

« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 10:54:03 PM by Alto Mare » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2019, 09:23:00 PM »

That was an exceptionally well done comparison and excellent photos.  So far I've never owned any examples from that generation of Shakespeare spinning reels (maybe that will change), but I have about a dozen of the first generation Penn Spinfishers that hold a permanent position in my arsenal.
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festus
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2019, 10:35:37 PM »

What  an excellent side-by-side comparison, Tommy!

I agree with Sal on the Penn having a better drive gear.  If fishing saltwater, I'd prefer the Penn, taking into account their paint is more likely to hold up better.  For freshwater gimme the Shakespeare on account of lighter weight.  

The Daiwa 8300 could probably hold its own with the two, plus it has an extra ball bearing and weighs a six or seven grams lighter than the Shakespeare.


* 8300.jpg (424.29 KB, 1500x1004 - viewed 8 times.)
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 10:41:41 PM by festus » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2019, 11:47:34 PM »

This was really well done Tommy.  A very ingenious approach with thought provoking results.

I started reading with a preference for Penn.  But, the Shakes seems better with bigger drag washers, more steel and less brass.  Then again, the Penn has an oil port in the handle knob (I had to say something nice).  

Three questions....  What is the gear ratio on the 2062?  Penn is 4.1:1 but the Shakes must be less.  That may, or may not, be a good thing.  

Is Penn paint really more durable?  I always thought the green paint is very fragile and the Shakespeare maroon would be better.

And finally, does line rub on the edge of the Shakes rotor cup like it does on a Penn; as Andrew described here?
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=29762.msg345288#msg345288

If you hang around here long enough all of your prejudices and convictions can be overturned.
-steve

« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 11:54:27 PM by oc1 » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2019, 02:54:15 AM »

Tommy,
Iíve got a 712 with an aluminium drive gear (https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=29887.0). I suspect itís one of the earlier runs which would have had a plastic spool. Iím guessing the combo of aluminium gear and plastic spool might get it closer to estimated weight? I donít have a set of small scales to check.

On another topic, the plastic drag clicker on the 712 is a weak spot. Iíve seen a few now with the end of the clicker shaved off. Iíd give that point to the Shakespeare.

Cheers,
Andrew

PS, excellent write up, thanks for sharing!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 02:56:00 AM by Ruffy » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2019, 03:18:57 AM »

And finally, does line rub on the edge of the Shakes rotor cup like it does on a Penn; as Andrew described here?
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=29762.msg345288#msg345288

I havenít gotten around to filing that down yet but I think that problem can be rectified Steve!
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2019, 06:32:29 AM »

   Great post Tom! Two very similar reels indeed. I doubt any one feature on either reel has any major benefit. I'll have to admit though...I like the larger drags on the Shakespeare. At the same time though, I'll also admit I've seen that not offer any benefit. The books will tell you the brass drive/steel worm is a smoother mesh than steel on steel, but I've also had my hands tell me the opposite on that. Hmm...bottom line? I own both of these reels...and suggest everyone else own both too! Cool
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« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2019, 07:34:14 AM »

Great post Midway!
My later days EB 2062 has a non-removable knob, but is easy to oil from the top, however I prefer grease on my spinner knobs(oil leaks onto my fingers sometimes). Also, the protrusion for the oil hole at the pinion/bearing area was not drilled on the EB(does have the gear shaft oiler, though). But hey, my line roller turns and there's still rubber on the bail stopper!...

Steve, about 3&2/3:1 for the EB 2062.
Like Festus, I'd probably wanna use the Penn in sw. and the Shakes. in fw. No real way to tell for sure without real world side by side testing. A few ozs. is accceptable to me "if" the reel is stronger and more sw. compatible.
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Midway Tommy
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« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2019, 12:43:57 PM »

Thanks, Guys.

It was a fun and interesting endeavor. It seems like both reels have certain advantages. Neither have any huge disadvantages. The Shakespeare is an EG, 1964 version. I thought that there might be a little wear/play in the 2062 gear mesh as a result of steel main gear and steel main gear/handle shaft bushing but they are both as tight as when new, so that theory flew out the door quickly. The elongated slot in the oscillation arm on the Penn may make for smoother rotation originally but the possibility of wear and binding since it is in a softer metal, at least in my opinion and experience, is much greater with that design/feature with extensive use.  

This was really well done Tommy.  A very ingenious approach with thought provoking results.

I started reading with a preference for Penn.  But, the Shakes seems better with bigger drag washers, more steel and less brass.  Then again, the Penn has an oil port in the handle knob (I had to say something nice).  

Three questions....  What is the gear ratio on the 2062?  Penn is 4.1:1 but the Shakes must be less.  That may, or may not, be a good thing.  

Is Penn paint really more durable?  I always thought the green paint is very fragile and the Shakespeare maroon would be better.

And finally, does line rub on the edge of the Shakes rotor cup like it does on a Penn; as Andrew described here?
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=29762.msg345288#msg345288

If you hang around here long enough all of your prejudices and convictions can be overturned.
-steve


Steve,

The box says the gear ratio is 3.8:1. I doubt the difference would be very noticeable to most people. I know it sure wouldn't be to me.  Wink

As far as the paint durability, I don't think there is a a whole lot of difference. I have another 712 and a 710 that look way worse than any of my 12 Shakespeare maroons.

I have no idea about line rubbing on the rotor. I don't fish those reels since they're not fulcrum drags, and I'm not sure I would notice even if I did unless it was causing a big problem. Most of my fishing is from a boat that I'm running so I'm usually thinking about keeping the boat where it needs to be.   Cheesy  
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Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)
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« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2019, 02:52:26 PM »

Super interesting post, and was worth the wait.  Looks like two great reels.  One factor that would tilt me toward the Shaky is the finger pad grip vs. the "big reel" style grip on the Penn.  I know there are others who feel the same way--that the Penn is a smaller reel with a big reel (and slightly out of place) grip.

Frank
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