alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Senator 114L2 vs 114 H2
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Author Topic: Senator 114L2 vs 114 H2  (Read 1327 times)
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Joao Tavares
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« on: July 12, 2018, 03:44:46 PM »

These are the differences I could find: black vs red sides, 44oz vs 45 oz reel weight, 22lbs drag vs 21lbs, and 2.9:1 vs 2.1:1 gear ratio.

Everything else seems the same including spool capacity.

Are they built for different purposes?
Why did Penn make 2 reels so similar and at same recommended price point?

Joćo
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 03:58:43 PM »

These are the newer Chinese made Senators.
The older American made ones were the 114 (Black) and the 114H (Red). These were discontinued in 2009.
The 114H is the high speed version and uses the same main gear, sleeve and drags as the 115L (9/0).
In the older versions, The drags and gears in a 114H are larger and put out a lot more than a standard Black 114L.
I can't speak for these Chinese versions, because I don't own any, but I'm willing to bet those listed drag numbers are off.
Larger gears and drags will give you Higher drag numbers.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 10:20:06 PM by Shark Hunter » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 04:02:59 PM »


Are they built for different purposes?

Yes

Why did Penn make 2 reels so similar and at same recommended price point?

Different intended purposes.
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Joao Tavares
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 09:29:24 PM »

These are the newer Chinese made Senators.
The older American made ones were the 114L (Black) and the 114H (Red). These were discontinued in 2009.
The 114H is the high speed version and uses the same main gear, sleeve and drags as the 115L (9/0).
In the older versions, The drags and gears in a 114H are larger and put out a lot more than a standard Black 114L.
I can't speak for these Chinese versions, because I don't own any, but I'm willing to bet those listed drag numbers are off.
Larger gears and drags will give you Higher drag numbers.


Thank you for your explanation.

Assuming I buy a US built red side plate one (114H) on Ebay, and I want to upgrade the drags (say carbontex), I must order Senator 115 drags and not 114?

Joćo
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 09:34:24 PM »

The drag kit fits both reels.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parets/6-114HSP.aspx
That is a bargain on a 5 stack complete kit.
The 114H has many upgrade opportunities.
That complete 5 stack kit is all you need if you don't want to go crazy with upgrades.
Bone stock with that kit makes a pretty impressive reel in my opinion.
You can pick up a nice 114H for 60 or 70 bucks.
Just be patient and don't buy one that is roached out, or needs parts.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 09:52:50 PM by Shark Hunter » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 10:04:34 PM »

The drag kit fits both reels.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parets/6-114HSP.aspx
That is a bargain on a 5 stack complete kit.
The 114H has many upgrade opportunities.
That complete 5 stack kit is all you need if you don't want to go crazy with upgrades.
Bone stock with that kit makes a pretty impressive reel in my opinion.
You can pick up a nice 114H for 60 or 70 bucks.
Just be patient and don't buy one that is roached out, or needs parts.

Thank you again.

I have a very old 114 (it's not even a 114H or L) with bushings instead of bearings that had a three stack drag system. I have upgraded it with a carbontex five stack that Alan has sent me and although it has some corrosion signs, works good.

As I plan to acquire 2 more reels but not willing to spend too much money, I was trying to figure out all these different reels designations in order to decide which ones to buy.

All the help I may get in this regard is much appreciated.

Joćo
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 10:11:04 PM »

Anytime Joao,
The 114 Black is a fine reel, but the 114H is a different animal.
One of my favorites. Much more powerful than the Black Model.
I mainly fish the bigger Senators. 12/0 and 14/0, but I have many.
They are good reels and have stood the test of time.
You need anything, let me know,
Daron
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2018, 10:54:34 PM »

Hi Daron

Since I already have the said 114 and a new Shimano Tyrnos 50 LRS 2 speed (which is kind of a 9/0 class reel), I was thinking of getting me a 9/0 and a 6/0 Senators.
That would give me 2 #80lbs reels and 2 #50lbs reels.

So it is time to start looking up for one 6/0 and one 9/0 and upgrade them to carbontex and new bearings if needed.

Joćo
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2018, 10:59:58 PM »

Hello Joao, you didn’t mention what type of fishing you do, this is very important and one of the reason you have different choices of reels.
I’m not sure on the new 114L2, I don’t own any, but you’ve mentioned the 114L.
The114L has the same gears as the 114h, the main gear is a little smaller in diameter, but just as strong.
I actually believe it is actually a little stronger than the faster 114h, this is due to the beefier pinion.

The older 114L has the same pinion as the 115L.
Lower gear ratio and bushing could be a better choice than the 114h, it has to do with what you are after.

If you are using these reels as winches to bring up big fish, you will be better off with the 114L, but I would recommend one with a one-piece spool, I have seen a few in my time where the three-piece spool
was warped.

A good upgrade on the 144L would be a stainless steel gear sleeve, it uses the same as the 114H and 115L.
A drag upgrade from mystic part, as Daron mentioned, or an insert kit from Motive Fabrications.
Information for both is going here at the for sale section.

If your bringing big  groupers from the bottom, or any othe monsters, a second anti-reverse dog would be a good call.

The 114 is the very first reel I installed the custom second custom dog on, this was done a while back.

The 114L and 114H are both good reels, one of the two would be a better reel, depending on the type of fishing.

Any other questions, just ask!

Best,

Sal
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2018, 12:58:03 AM »

Hi Sal

Thank you for the insight.

I will mainly troll for Spanish, GT, Wahoo and alike. YFT are targets as well. On occasion going further out to look for marlin.
Anyway, I feel more comfortable with 2 #80 and 2 #50 monos in the setup.
I read all this about carbontex (smoothdrag.com) being the drag to go for and now you write about Mystic part and Motive Fabrication inserts. Trying to confuse me even more?

You wrote: "The114L has the same gears as the 114h, the main gear is a little smaller in diameter, but just as strong."
Doesn't smaller diameter mean smaller drag washer OD and thus smaller friction area? Doesn't that translate to less drag capability? Just using car's disk brakes analogy.

Joćo
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2018, 02:19:49 AM »

Hi Sal

Thank you for the insight.

I will mainly troll for Spanish, GT, Wahoo and alike. YFT are targets as well. On occasion going further out to look for marlin.
Anyway, I feel more comfortable with 2 #80 and 2 #50 monos in the setup.
I read all this about carbontex (smoothdrag.com) being the drag to go for and now you write about Mystic part and Motive Fabrication inserts. Trying to confuse me even more?

You wrote: "The114L has the same gears as the 114h, the main gear is a little smaller in diameter, but just as strong."
Doesn't smaller diameter mean smaller drag washer OD and thus smaller friction area? Doesn't that translate to less drag capability? Just using car's disk brakes analogy.

Joćo

Sorry for confusing you Joao.
As mentioned by Daron, here is where you could purchase the full kit with carbon fiber washers to replace the 3 washers stack you have:
https://www.mysticparts.com/6-114SP-Kit-Drag-Washer-Kit-HT-1008482-with-Metals-10-pcs-P28571.aspx

you could also try here, but I don't see any for the 114L:
http://smoothdrag.com/price.html

Here is where you could order the insert kit:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=16459.msg171551#msg171551
The kits will boost the drags by a good 30% from stock. These kits are made to order, so I'm not sure Adam has any at the moment.

Yes, you are correct on the diameter being smaller and having a smaller friction area, I was referring on gear strength and  not on drag numbers.

Just to compare the two...Gear ratio on the 114L is 2:1
                                      Gear ratio on the 114H is 2.8:1

Here is a pic of the pinion on the 114L:
https://www.mysticparts.com/13-114-Gear-Pinion-Gear-P3162.aspx
Here is a pick of the pinion on the 114H:
https://www.mysticparts.com/13-114H-Gear-Pinion-Gear-P3210.aspx

wall on the 114L pinion is much beefier.

Considering your type of fishing, you will do much better with the 114H.

Sal
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 02:30:02 AM by Alto Mare » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2018, 04:38:44 AM »

I will mainly troll for Spanish, GT, Wahoo and alike. YFT are targets as well. On occasion going further out to look for marlin.Joćo

For smaller fish like the first 3 above a 113H would be a better choice.
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Joao Tavares
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2018, 07:41:48 PM »

Thank you guys.

I agree that the most cost effective reels for these sizes have to be Penn Senators, especially the US made ones previous to 2009.

As long as you get some decent drag washers and avoid the drag jerks, it is fine for me.

Cheers
Joćo
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day0ne
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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2018, 09:48:48 PM »

If you want cost effective, look at the Daiwa Sealine 600H (6/0) and the 900H (9/0). They come stock with aluminum frames and are usually cheaper than equivalent Penn's.
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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2018, 10:04:21 PM »

Upgrades to the Sealines are a mandatory issue too to eliminate the jerky drags.
They are a cheaper option, and I own every one.
There are upgrades to the washers and a stainless sleeve to make them the best they can be.
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