Mooching reel drag upgrade

Started by Navidad Nutcase, July 21, 2018, 08:50:02 PM

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Hardy Boy

I use the super lube as WB said. It has Teflon in it . roughing up the cork with a small metal brush and a lite oil works great,

Todd
Todd

Maxed Out


If memory serves me right the Islander clicker can only be heard when reeling and is quiet when line is peeling off. Kinda seems bass ackward to me.
We Must Never Forget Our Veterans....God Bless Them All !!

Hardy Boy

Ted it clicks both ways but a little quieter with the line going out .................. calls less seals that way!! :D


Cheers:

Todd
Todd

El Pescador

Interesting...

Two quality fly reel companies, Abel & Tibor,

both do it differently.

For Abel Reels, they use Neatsfoot oil:    https://abelreels.com/main/care-instructions/

and for Tibor reels, they use graphite Lube:   https://www.tiborreel.com/faqs/    and do not recommend using neatsfoot oil, as it dries out the cork.

to quote Star Trek show, "Fascinating Jim!"

Wayne
Never let the skinny guys make the sandwiches!!  NEVER!!!!

jurelometer

#19
OK, So I just looked at the islander maintanence video, and another one with the same guy from Islander.   I am losing my faith in these guys.   First of all the manual says add graphite powder to the disk.   But the guy in the video does not mention this.   In one of the videos,  he says something along the lines of "grease is not a lubricant".   The  overall maintenance procedure looks a bit sketchy to me.



https://islander.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/MR3-Manual.pdf

Adding graphite to a lubricant is done to decrease the coefficient of friction and also to decrease the difference between the static and dynamic coefficient of friction.     But teflon (PTFE) in the lubricant does the same thing.   If there is not enough teflon in the lube, they should switch lubes, not have the customer sprinkle graphite powder on top.   Most modern drag  lubes are a  high temp grease with a teflon additive, not an oil.   Grease is used on surfaces where the lubricant must stick,   Oil does not stick as well.

Also, from the manual:

Because of saltwater conditions, it is important that the reel be rinsed off under a warm water stream after each trip. While the reel is saltwater safe, the quick rinse will help your reel perform better in the long run. Avoid immersing the spool in water, because moisture will be retained by the backing and line.

First of all,   Water temperature does not affect the solubility of salt. It does not have to be warm.   Second,  a rinse will not evacuate any salt  that gets inside the reel.   Third, while nylon line  absorbs water, the water content will quickly equalize with the humidity in the surrounding air.   Gel spun polyethelyne does not absorb any significant amount of water, but it can trap salt in the gaps in the braid if it gets wet.  

Fresh water is an excellent solvent for salt.  So immersing the reel will dillute any salt water, and dissolve salt trapped in the reel or backing and evacuate.  Fresh water that is not highly chlorinated (i. e. don't use your swimming  pool) will not corrode anodized aluminum and stainless steel.   For that you need an electrolyte solution (e.g. salt and water).  Since keeping the reel 100% dry is impossible,   better to eliminate as much salt as possible, not as much water.

BTW-  the coil spring on the MR3 model does not look very substantial.    The purpose of the spring is to provide more drag knob turns per lb of clamping force to improve adjustability.   But coil springs are not the best at repeatability or maintaining exact tension over time.   Abel addressed this by putting a super beefy coil spring in their reels.   Old Florida eventually upgraded from wimpy coil springs to bellveilles.  Conventional reels use belleviles.  If you can find stainless belleviiles with the right ID/OD,  a potential (easily reversible) upgrade would be to replace the coil spring with a stack of bellevilles.  I fixed a couple Old Florida reels this way.  Got my bellevilles from McMaster Carr.

Quote from: El Pescador on July 23, 2018, 02:13:51 AM
Interesting...

Two quality fly reel companies, Abel & Tibor,

both do it differently.

For Abel Reels, they use Neatsfoot oil:   https://abelreels.com/main/care-instructions/

and for Tibor reels, they use graphite Lube:   https://www.tiborreel.com/faqs/    and do not recommend using neatsfoot oil, as it dries out the cork.

to quote Star Trek show, "Fascinating Jim!"

Wayne

Neatsfoot does not dry out the cork.  The cork can get dry  because neatsfoot doesn't last super long and needs to be reapplied more frequently.  I think that neatsfoot use results in a higher coefficient of friction than grease lubricants (could be wrong here, this is from memory), so you are at less risk of compressing the cork, but you need to stay on top of reapplying it.   I prefer Cal's Universal grease (with teflon) on my cork drag fly reels.   I have applied it on cork that had previously used used Neetsfoot oil or a graphite blend.  YMMV.   The nice thing about using Cal's is that the same grease  can be used everywhere, so you don't have to worry about lubricants getting mixed. The one thing you don't want to do is let it get dry.  Dry cork gets sticky, will wear out,  and if it gets dry enough you can even smoke the drag on a long run at high settings -   "smoke" as in actual smoke  coming out at as the cork burns.  

I'm not sure I would rough up the cork, but won't argue if it works for other folks.

Navidad Nutcase

I have just returned from a day of fishing the Amundson mooching reel with a carbon drag  ''upgrade" - which proved to be a down grade.
The reel held no better than the cork drag did. After about two hours of fiddling with the drag tensions with unsatisfactory results, I took the reel off and mounted my 12W  to the pole - just to see how the leverdrag reel performed. Anybody want to buy a couple mooching reels. I don't think I'll go back.

I still can't believe all problems were solved with this little lever drag reel. When one has to put so much tension on the mooching reel, and also add a clip to the top, You loose sensitivity at the bottom.  A 6 inch fish will not release the scotty clip at the cannonball. If you didn't see the one little ''wiggle' the rod tip made when he struck, you can drag the little thing around and not even know it's there..
When I switched to the 12w (has a carbon upgrade like tightlines did his ) it took so little drag tention at the reel that I was able to use less tension on the scotty clip at the cannonball. The result was that all 3 of the little 6'' spring salmon that hit our spoon today, pulled the line out of the bottom clip (the ONLY clip on the outfit now ) . The same goes for the seaweed. As soon as slightest bit accumulates at the flasher , the clip releases.
We caught numerous Coho today - 3 on the levelwind - and they were just as much fun to reel in as the ones on the other reel - a Moocher.
Unfortunately we didn't eat fish tonight. All were wild stock and we are only allowed to retain hatchery Coho.
I will put the cork back on the ''upgraded'' reel and then ? I don't know but I think they will go up for sale.
Thanks to all for the advise and opinions. I certainly learned a few thing this week. Quite a few things indeed. Good fishing to all.
Greg
Don't criticize our kids. We too were once "young n' dumb".... Fortunately - and sadly - neither condition is permanent.

jurelometer

Quote from: Navidad Nutcase on July 27, 2018, 07:06:12 AM
I have just returned from a day of fishing the Amundson mooching reel with a carbon drag  ''upgrade" - which proved to be a down grade.
The reel held no better than the cork drag did. After about two hours of fiddling with the drag tensions with unsatisfactory results, I took the reel off and mounted my 12W  to the pole - just to see how the leverdrag reel performed. Anybody want to buy a couple mooching reels. I don't think I'll go back.

I still can't believe all problems were solved with this little lever drag reel. When one has to put so much tension on the mooching reel, and also add a clip to the top, You loose sensitivity at the bottom.  A 6 inch fish will not release the scotty clip at the cannonball. If you didn't see the one little ''wiggle' the rod tip made when he struck, you can drag the little thing around and not even know it's there..
When I switched to the 12w (has a carbon upgrade like tightlines did his ) it took so little drag tention at the reel that I was able to use less tension on the scotty clip at the cannonball. The result was that all 3 of the little 6'' spring salmon that hit our spoon today, pulled the line out of the bottom clip (the ONLY clip on the outfit now ) . The same goes for the seaweed. As soon as slightest bit accumulates at the flasher , the clip releases.
We caught numerous Coho today - 3 on the levelwind - and they were just as much fun to reel in as the ones on the other reel - a Moocher.
Unfortunately we didn't eat fish tonight. All were wild stock and we are only allowed to retain hatchery Coho.
I will put the cork back on the ''upgraded'' reel and then ? I don't know but I think they will go up for sale.
Thanks to all for the advise and opinions. I certainly learned a few thing this week. Quite a few things indeed. Good fishing to all.
Greg

Thanks for posting your results! Nothing like a real-world test to help us all learn something. 

The mooching reels have a nearly identical drag design to a lever drag.  Perhaps   the drag spring/tension mechanism might be the source of the inconsistent/fading tension in the mooching reels.    But if you don't enjoy fishing the single action reels more,   switching to conventional reels makes an awful lot of sense to me.

You might also want to  try gelspun (AKA spectra/dyneema) line on your conventional reels,  which will drastically reduce the tension on the line from trolling.    A friend of mine who trolls for salmon  in your vicinity switched to spectra, and never went back.  The thinner line diameter helps in all aspects except when the fish makes a run toward the boat.  A higher gear ratio can come in handy here. 

-J

Navidad Nutcase

Sorry for the late reply here but we've been out fishing coho most everyday. We got a bit of down time now 'cause the hi pressure fuel pump on our outbourd decided to pack it in on the way back from some jiggin' for bottom fish. Had to come back on the 9 horse kicker. 3 hours to get back! - Fixin' now 'stead a  fishin'.
More fish here than I've seen in many years. I have put my Amundsons on the must go list. I have way to much gear to just have them laying around. I will never go back to moochers. When I was younger they were a lot of fun but at 70 - I need all the advantages I can get.  My 12's and one 6 international are all spooled with spectra. They are working 100%. We've caught and released as high as 30 fish in one 5 hour troll. The internationals are on 10'6'' mooching poles (or trolling poles if you prefer). This makes for a very sensitive tip and a good fight. The downrigger clips release on as small as a 4'' fish or when a small amount of trash gets hooked on the flasher. The spectral, I believe, also cuts a lot of the trash so it doesn't stay on the line. We also have braid on the downriggers and for sure THAT cuts down on the amount of seaweed that hangs up. I couldn't be more pleased with this system.
Good fishing to all , the sockeye will be here soon.
Don't criticize our kids. We too were once "young n' dumb".... Fortunately - and sadly - neither condition is permanent.