Delrin spacer under ratchet gear and rulon as a spacer sleeve

[Petah]

Just wanted to get some input on using a thin delrin shim under the gear ratchet to take up some of that bridge sleeve slop. AND....
Making a drag spacer sleeve out of rulon. There is a lot of room in the bridge plate sleeve opening and a custom made rulon sleeve could fill in that gap and provide a super slick spacer for the top of the drag stack as well as the sleeve. Appreciate any and all thoughts/ suggestions!!!!

Peter

[Tiddlerbasher]

Particularly on Penn conventionals I've been using a 0.5mm Teflon washer under the ratchet with a 1mm delrin between ratchet and main gear (on some reels it would be possible to use a 1mm teflon under the ratchet).



I also put another 1mm delrin washer between the top keyed washer and the top hat thick washer.



To keep the dog(s) in alignment with the ratchet I also place a 0.5mm teflon washer under the dog



The teflon is not under any great force so it doesn't get 'squished' but provides a nice slippery surface.
The washers are 'oversize' such that the dog cannot catch on the edge of either of them but rather 'floats' between them.
My materials are metric thicnesses because I live in a metric world

[conchydong]

My materials are metric thicnesses because I live in a metric world

Sounds like a new song from Madonna.

Nice work though.

[Alto Mare]

Nice design! usually Teflon doesn't hold its shape when under compression, but the .5mm might be the correct formula.

[Tiddlerbasher]

Sal the 0.5mm teflon washer under the ratchet is not stressed - only the delrin washers are being compressed.
I did it this way to stop metal on metal contact and hopefully make things smoother.

[Gfish]

Interesting, rulon for a drag spacer sleeve. Not familiar with rulon, is it stiff enough? Something that fits tighter and is easier to shave down than chromed brass, would be nice.

[Alto Mare]

Sal the 0.5mm teflon washer under the ratchet is not stressed - only the delrin washers are being compressed.
I did it this way to stop metal on metal contact and hopefully make things smoother.

Yes I see, you threw me off with the same color🙂

[jurelometer]

Interesting, rulon for a drag spacer sleeve. Not familiar with rulon, is it stiff enough? Something that fits tighter and is easier to shave down than chromed brass, would be nice.

Gfish (as usual) is asking the right questions.

Rulon is a trade name for fiber filled PTFE (AKA Teflon).    It is a great bearing material and is much stiffer/ harder than pure PTFE.  It has the same high temp ratings and low friction as regular PTFE.  It needs smooth hard surfaces to run against.   There are different types of Rulon, each with their own requirements for hardness of the mating surface.   There are pressure ratings for the types of rulon,  and with a bit of basic math and some measurement, you can determine if a clamping load from the star drag is exceeding the material rating.  I could post the formulas, but it upsets some of the flat-earth crowd .  I wouldn't be surprised if it were  stiff enough for a squidder set to 5  or 6 pounds of drag.  The load is not very large.

I have read that Rulon can be machined,  but I haven't tried it.   There are usually some special tricks to machine these type of plastics in order to get a good finish and hold the diminsions that you are trying to cut it to.

In terms of suitability for a squidder spacer:
----
Short answer- might be to squishy at higher drag settings,  might not scrape up an aftermarket  aluminum sideplate if you customize the spacer to have a small gap,  poor conduction of heat away from the drag stack,  and does not take advantage of the primary value of Rulon as a bearing surface.  Also a relatively expensive material.  It will probably work (almost any stiff material will for the load a squidder can handle),  but it is unlikely to provide benefit.
----
Long answer:

  The gear sleeve spacer is just what its name implies, a spacer. It is not a bearing.  The inside surface it touches is threaded and flat-keyed (not good alignment),  and the outside surface cannot rub against the frame hole (the fit and finish are not that accurate).  Also,  the under-sleeve post actually flexes a substantial amount under load.  The chances of getting the spacer to work as a solid bearing on a squidder are slim to none.

The reel repair/customization experts here sometimes mess with the spacer diameters.  The goal is to get a spacer that will clear the housing when under load, but will start rubbing and prevent gear damage if the shaft angle gets too far out of whack.  I have a nice surfmaster from Sal that has a perfectly fitted spacer, and I wouldn't be surprised if it took a bit of work to get it just right.

The second function of the spacer is to conduct heat out of the drag stack and onto the star, where the surrounding air carries off the heat.   

If a rulon sleeve was close fitted, it might help when rubbing, depending on the mating surface. Anything rough or with an edge would chew up the rulon.  If the sleeve was fit with normal tolerances, it would probably never touch the sideplate/liner.

If my memory serves me correctly,  rulon is not a very good conductor of heat.   stock brass is much better.

Instead of a spacer, a separate rulon top of stack washer actually functions as a thrust bearing surface and could give you a smoother drag at the expense of heat conduction.  This could very well be a worthwhile tradeoff.   Several folks here swear by delrin top washers.  Rulon properties are a bit better than delrin for this purpose, but the  difference might not be noticeable, and the cost is higher.


-J

[Petah]

Thanks guys!!! I am hand lapping delrin shims for under the ratchet gear and you have confirmed it's a good thing.
Thanks Jurelometer for the info on rulon. I had read something you had posted on it but wasn't too sure about how it would fare under compression as a spacer. I also wondered about how the threading on the sleeve would cut into the rulon. I'm pretty clear on what I want to do now. Thanks again!!!

Peter

[Tiddlerbasher]

Peter - there is no need to lap the teflon/delrin under ratchet washer. Cut it or stamp it and it will work fine. Lapping may actually make it less smooth. Why make more work for no gain

[Petah]

Tiddlerbash,
                  Where do you get your delrin washers/shims from? I've read that some of you guys get sheets and punch out your own washers but I don't have wad cutters/punches for that. I got some delrin washers from McMaster/Carr and modified them with what I got. They don't fit real good on the post but do take up the slop and seem to be really smooth. I have LOTS of free time so tinkering is not a problem just not having the proper tools is my drawback.

Peter

[Tiddlerbasher]

Ah! Not having the tools to cut/stamp your own washers would be an issue. I use wad cutters to get me close then bolt/nut/washers spin in a battery drill and sand to the final size. Perfection isn't necessary - approximation is usually good enough