How did this Squidder gear sleeve get damaged?

Started by captquint99, January 06, 2019, 01:33:21 PM

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captquint99

Here is a pic of a gear sleeve from a 140 that I was servicing. Note the bent teeth on the gear sleeve. The reel did have excess lubrication on the gears and the drags were the old style. The dog is not deformed in any way. Any theories on how the gear sleeve was damaged?

Swami805

Maybe trying to get the "knucklebuster" eccentric lever back in gear under a lot off tension on the line. Like someone flipped it open with a fish on it then trying to get it back in gear with the handle spinning.
Do what you can with that you have where you are

alantani

as bad as this looks, this could be reshaped, all the burrs removed, and brought back to working order.  you'd want to reshape the dog as well, then shim everything so that it seats properly.  if there is too much up and down play in the gear sleeve, you could drill a slightly bigger hole to accommodate a larger retaining pin.  it's all very tedious, but there is just so much slop built into the stock parts that sometimes these things are necessary. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Reel 224

I don't mean to question anyone's advice, I would say that gear sleeve had to come under pressure to bend the teeth like that. So I would replace that with a SS sleeve and dog. The next time it is forced to do to much work it will be up to it.

Joe
"I don't know the key to success,but the key to failure is trying to please everyone."

alantani

well, that is definitely true, but sometimes you'll have someone with money and no time, sometimes it's someone with time and no money.  for those who can't afford the upgraded parts (and we've all been there), a small flat file might clean these up nicely. 

the question was asked, though, how did this happen.  it's back to basics here.  likely the drags got sticky and seized, then suddenly the reel was under tremendous load.  with this level of damage to the gear sleeve, i would also look for damage to the dog, the main and pinion gears, and even check the frame to make sure it's not torqued.  it all goes back to the drag system.

and about the drag washers.  let's say you've got a kid with no money and you want to help him out.  the drag washers could be all rusted and gummed up.  you could "raise the grain" by scraping with an old dull pocket knife, then apply cal's grease to these crusty old drag washers and i'll bet the drag will be smooth enough for this kid.  that's the beauty of these old reels.   ;D
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

foakes

Quote from: Reel 224 on January 06, 2019, 06:26:39 PM
I don't mean to question anyone's advice, I would say that gear sleeve had to come under pressure to bend the teeth like that. So I would replace that with a SS sleeve and dog. The next time it is forced to do to much work it will be up to it.

Joe

You are right, Joe — and replacing the sleeve and dog with SS would solve possibly 50% of the issue (but likely not the cause of the original pressure and torque that distorted those teeth.

So, in my book, it boils down to what the reel owner wants to invest — or even attempt themselves.

* A SS sleeve and a dog are around $42 with shipping, more for overseas.

* A stock dog and sleeve are around $10.

* Taking the teeth down and straightening them to sharpness — and installing a good used dog — is also a viable way to go.

It all depends on the owner or client's wishes, expectations, and checkbook.

Add $42 to a $22 service, a new delrin undergear washer, and a new drag stack greased with Cal's — and we are at $75 plus shipping — if no other issues are found such as a torqued frame, something else bent, a bad gear set, or bad bearings.

For me, on a Squidder, I would drop in another good used sleeve & dog — after cleaning the reel — then see if there are no other issues — and this solves the problem.

Typically, on these old battle tested Penn Conventionals — a little slop is OK — as long as the function is there — along with a Cal's greased new drag stack.

At the end of the day — it is all about how much labor, effort, and $$$ one wants to invest in their reel.

And this is a different call for each of us...

Just my opinions!

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

oc1

#6
That's a mystery for sure, especially if there is no damage to the dog and the post is not bent or loose.  You would think the sharp little teeth on the main and pinion would give out before the big teeth on the sleeve.  If whatever it is they're fishing for can cause that much damage to the gear sleeve, then maybe they should be looking for a more substantial reel instead of pouring money into that one.
-steve

Reel 224

 ;D ;D ;D ;) I knew I was going to be slapped on the hand for such outrageous thoughts and suggestions by the BOSS!! ;D ;D ;). Just kidding. If Kita is on board, I think he made some SS dogs to fit the Squider. Never the less, you are right guys that situation can be corrected with arm strong assist.


Joe 
"I don't know the key to success,but the key to failure is trying to please everyone."

alantani

one of the things i've always been sensitive to is the fact that not everyone can afford the fancy stuff.  particularly kids.  so if i can get something working well enough with the least amount of cost, that's what i try to do.  and that is where these reels really shine.  it's the fact that they will take a beating. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Bill B

Im puzzled by the fact the gear sleeve is trashed but the dog is not.....Could the dog be stainless steel or was it changed out by someone else because it was toast also?  Maybe a small piece of metal came loose inside the gear box and jammed up against the gear sleeve teeth.   Bill
It may not be very productive,
but it's sure going to be interesting!

sdlehr

It's always possible that at one time the dog looked a lot worse than the sleeve and was replaced and this is what was left behind.
Sid Lehr
Veterinarian, fishing enthusiast, custom rod builder, reel collector

captquint99

I'am not the original owner of this reel. The reel was definitely serviced as evidenced by the excess amount of lube found. The dog could have been changed. I think the anti reverse switch under pressure could be the culprit. For now I have a 209 that has been laying around for awhile (needs a new levelwind worm) so I'am going to swap out the 98-155 gear and get this squidder back to top notch fishing condition. I'am going to try to lightly file and sand the bottom of the damaged gear sleeve so it can possibly be used. By just turning the handle I didn't notice anything wrong with the anti reverse, all was smooth and no noises. I didn't have the reel under any pressure though, things could be different with some pressure on the spool.

Cortez_Conversions

Curious what the clicker looks like?

My guess would be that this reel was fished in gear, clicker on, and anti-reverse off. Once a fish bit and ran, the anti-reverse lever was thrown into gear. I don't think the damage occurred from one event, but rather over time.

Just a guess though.

Tom
Visit: cortezconversions.com
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.-Sal

oc1


foakes

#14
Tom is right —

And few folks understand how this A/R mechanism on a Squidder or a Mariner is designed to operate.

And, IMO, few folks understand how to operate a typical Penn Conventional properly. (Drag, A/R, spool tensioner, clicker, etc.).

Although, most folks who follow our forum and others — do know how these work, I believe.

The dog was likely replaced or filed down — and that was the end of any maintenance.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.