alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Sea Wonder 2080 level wind shaft frozen
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: Sea Wonder 2080 level wind shaft frozen  (Read 464 times)
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jmichaelp
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« on: January 10, 2019, 10:28:33 AM »

Hi, I hope that I can correctly explain this. My Dad's old 2080 probably hadn't been used in decades. The old grease was so hard gears were frozen in place but soaking in oil freed them. The housing for the spool spins smoothly, but the inner shaft that moves the spool up/down (if I correctly understand the mechanics) does not move. I see no obvious way to remove the shaft or otherwise address the problem. Can someone please provide some guidance to help me out? Thanks!

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festus
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2019, 10:51:42 AM »

Welcome to the Alan Tani site, jmichaelp!  You've come to the right place.

I don't own a Shakespeare 2080, but I have the 2081 which is similar.  I've never encountered this problem with a Shakespeare.  Was the 2080 fished heavily in salt water?  Sounds like it is corroded and frozen inside the worm gear.  There is probably a solvent that will help free it, but I'm still fairly new to this reel repair so I don't know which to recommend. Applying heat may help, or even cold freezing temps.  Then again, your axle may be bent.  
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 04:32:43 PM by festus » Logged
jmichaelp
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2019, 11:37:18 AM »

Thanks for the quick reply festus!

I don't think it was fished much at all, the exterior looks brand new. A new reel like this would've been a luxury item for my Dad, so he was probably afraid to use it much, but it definitely would've been in saltwater.

How do I apply heat, with a propane torch? Is it to the shaft that seems frozen?

Thanks again!
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Dominick
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2019, 11:46:26 AM »

Try soaking in a 50/50 mixture of Acetone and transmission fluid.  Dominick
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2019, 11:54:21 AM »

A propane torch will probably buckle the paint, a hairdryer might do the trick. Sounds like the axle is frozen inside the worm gear.  If you can get the rotor removed and the entire axle-pinion assembly outside of the reel body, you'd be ok using a propane torch.

Dominick's suggestion to soak in acetone/transmission fluid will probably do it also as long as it doesn't harm the paint.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 04:33:25 PM by festus » Logged
jmichaelp
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2019, 01:43:26 PM »

Try soaking in a 50/50 mixture of Acetone and transmission fluid.  Dominick

Thanks for the suggestion Dominick! I've only tried what's on hand, which was 3-in-1 oil dripped into the bearings & around the inner shaft, do the same with this mixture?

A propane torch will probably buckle the paint, a hairdryer might do the trick. Sounds like the axle is frozen inside the pinion gear.  If you can get the rotor removed and the entire axle-pinion assembly outside of the reel body, you'd be ok using a propane torch.

Dominick's suggestion to soak in acetone/transmission fluid will probably do it also as long as it doesn't harm the paint.

Thanks for the suggestion about using a hair dryer festus. I guess that's the rotor nut on the spool side - how do I access it? Looks like a specialized wrench would be required.
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foakes
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2019, 01:46:26 PM »

Dominick’s suggestion of AT fluid & Acetone will likely work — although damage may occur to painted parts.

However, this is a good formula.

For me, I do not think it is rusted — just salt fused or grease turned to wax.  The shaft is a light but a tough alloy to prevent rusting.  Although the worm gear is steel.  It is still not likely rusted together.

You can mix the Acetone and AT fluid together — then drip as much as possible down the shaft into the worm drive.  Let it work overnight.  Then see if there is any movement by using a wrench on the top end of the shaft.  You can use a twisting motion to free it.

The worm and main bearing will not come out for evacuation of grease and cleaning — until the rotor and the lower rotor shield are removed first.  So the shaft must come out first.  The shield holds the bearing and worm in place as pictured.

Here are a couple of old 2080’s for examples.

Before torquing or pounding on the bottom end of the shaft — try the A/T-Acetone, or Kroil first.

Then if heat might work — a HD soldering gun will apply heat exactly where needed — without ruining other adjacent parts.

If worse comes to worse — and the paint is ruined — no big deal — the reel will at least be operational — and can always be painted, if desired.

At this point, with patience and a planned approach — it can only get better.

These are very tough old workhorse reels — but like any reel used in the salt —they must be serviced, greased, and maintained on a regular schedule.

Let us know how you do.

Best,

Fred


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« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 01:54:47 PM by foakes » Logged

A young apprentice once asked a Master Carpenter — “what was the most expensive tool you ever purchased, old timer?”

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jmichaelp
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2019, 05:46:21 PM »

Fred, thanks for the detailed response.

Based on your comment & what I saw on the other gears, I think it's grease turned to wax after perhaps 50+ years of sitting.

I've been able to hold the housing & turn the main shaft a little, but hesitated to do much for fear I'd ruin something & not be able to get a replacement part. Based on the reviews listed below & the cost, I'm going to try Liquid Wrench first followed by your suggestion to use a soldering gun for pinpoint heat.

I don't think my Dad would've spent $250 (today's $) on a reel. This was probably a gift that was "too nice" & the poor guy was afraid to use it. So, I can't wait to get this operational & go fishing. Thanks for the help getting me there.


1. Heat
2. Liquid Wrench
3. Acetone/ATF

https://www.engineeringforchange.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/ENGR103-WD40Alternative-FinReport.pdf
Acetone/Vegetable oil was the winner (cost/availability was part of their criteria).

http://www.healey6.com/Technical/Penetrating%20Oil%20Showdown.pdf
1. Acetone/ATF
2. Kano Kroil
3. Liquid Wrench
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jmichaelp
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2019, 08:33:16 AM »

The 3-in-1 ended up working, just took longer, & I was able to pull out the main shaft last night. Just have to clean & lube it, then it's in business. Thanks for all of the help!
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Reel 224
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2019, 09:04:36 AM »

Just like horses in a race everyone picks a winner. I happen to like Kroil I have used it for many years and it works. Also 301 & 321 works very well as a cleaner and lubricant especially 321. When we are talking Reels and Guns This is what I rely on.

Joe
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foakes
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2019, 09:41:32 AM »

Just some hints —

The key elements to extremely smooth operation on these old Shakes, are:

After cleaning up the spool shaft — use “0000” steel wool — rinse and let dry — couple of drops of oil.

Then, make sure the bearing is removed and cleaned with solvents to remove old dried grease — check for smooth spin — lube with mix of grease and oil — I soak my cleaned bearing in synthetic oil such as TSI321 overnight after cleaning — then apply LIGHT synthetic grease such as Yamaha Marine or Penn Blue.

Clean the the main gear shaft with SW also.

The other two things are to clean and burnish the inside of the pinion worm, and the inside of the  bushing that holds the main gear crank handle shaft. 

The easiest way, is to get a long and thin drill bit and a drill — wrap “0000” steel wool completely around the bit — then run it a few times through the crank bushing and pinion insides.

When they get warm to the touch — about 45 seconds — they are better than when they came off the factory line.  Rinse, dry, lube with oil.

Don’t forget the rear bushing that supports the pinion at the back inside of the body — SW also.

Just getting out all of the caked up grease that is close to 50 years old, helps.  The proper cleaning, burnishing, attention to the drivetrain metals, along with modern lubes will allow it to survive another 50 years.

Basically — oil on parts such as the crank shaft, spool shaft, etc.  Then grease on any gear meshing parts.

A little of the oil and grease will get mixed together over usage — but that is a good thing.

Not telling you what to do with your reel — just offering a few tips.

These old metal Shakespeare spinners are tough and durable.

Best,

Fred
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A young apprentice once asked a Master Carpenter — “what was the most expensive tool you ever purchased, old timer?”

The older man just replied matter of factly —

“The one that didn’t work”...
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« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2019, 05:59:36 PM »

Just some hints —

The key elements to extremely smooth operation on these old Shakes, are:

After cleaning up the spool shaft — use “0000” steel wool — rinse and let dry — couple of drops of oil.

Then, make sure the bearing is removed and cleaned with solvents to remove old dried grease — check for smooth spin — lube with mix of grease and oil — I soak my cleaned bearing in synthetic oil such as TSI321 overnight after cleaning — then apply LIGHT synthetic grease such as Yamaha Marine or Penn Blue.

Clean the the main gear shaft with SW also.

The other two things are to clean and burnish the inside of the pinion worm, and the inside of the  bushing that holds the main gear crank handle shaft. 

The easiest way, is to get a long and thin drill bit and a drill — wrap “0000” steel wool completely around the bit — then run it a few times through the crank bushing and pinion insides.

When they get warm to the touch — about 45 seconds — they are better than when they came off the factory line.  Rinse, dry, lube with oil.

Don’t forget the rear bushing that supports the pinion at the back inside of the body — SW also.

Just getting out all of the caked up grease that is close to 50 years old, helps.  The proper cleaning, burnishing, attention to the drivetrain metals, along with modern lubes will allow it to survive another 50 years.

Basically — oil on parts such as the crank shaft, spool shaft, etc.  Then grease on any gear meshing parts.

A little of the oil and grease will get mixed together over usage — but that is a good thing.

Not telling you what to do with your reel — just offering a few tips.

These old metal Shakespeare spinners are tough and durable.

Best,

Fred


Fred: I love your advice! Smiley Smiley

Joe
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jmichaelp
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2019, 02:50:35 PM »

Just some hints —

The key elements to extremely smooth operation on these old Shakes, are:

After cleaning up the spool shaft — use “0000” steel wool — rinse and let dry — couple of drops of oil.

Then, make sure the bearing is removed and cleaned with solvents to remove old dried grease — check for smooth spin — lube with mix of grease and oil — I soak my cleaned bearing in synthetic oil such as TSI321 overnight after cleaning — then apply LIGHT synthetic grease such as Yamaha Marine or Penn Blue.

Clean the the main gear shaft with SW also.

The other two things are to clean and burnish the inside of the pinion worm, and the inside of the  bushing that holds the main gear crank handle shaft. 

The easiest way, is to get a long and thin drill bit and a drill — wrap “0000” steel wool completely around the bit — then run it a few times through the crank bushing and pinion insides.

When they get warm to the touch — about 45 seconds — they are better than when they came off the factory line.  Rinse, dry, lube with oil.

Don’t forget the rear bushing that supports the pinion at the back inside of the body — SW also.

Just getting out all of the caked up grease that is close to 50 years old, helps.  The proper cleaning, burnishing, attention to the drivetrain metals, along with modern lubes will allow it to survive another 50 years.

Basically — oil on parts such as the crank shaft, spool shaft, etc.  Then grease on any gear meshing parts.

A little of the oil and grease will get mixed together over usage — but that is a good thing.

Not telling you what to do with your reel — just offering a few tips.

These old metal Shakespeare spinners are tough and durable.

Best,

Fred

I was going to ask about particulars for cleaning, but decide not to. I actually thought about SW  but was afraid of pieces breaking off & getting into the bearings. So, I just used solvent & an old small screwdriver to pick between the gear teeth - that old grease was hard! I didn't see a way to remove the bearings & again, didn't want to break anything so I just used solvent on them. I probably got 99.99% of the old grease out after about 3 hours before my hands began cramping too much to use (nerve damage due to neck problems).  I did use Penn Blue on the gears & oil everywhere else. At a later date, I'll go back in & follow your guide. Everything is smooth & I just need to clean up the exterior.

I appreciate how solid these old reels are & may have the bug to look for additional reels to own.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.
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