Supertuned my Curado...no improvement. Where did I go wrong?

Started by Henning, September 14, 2011, 05:16:03 AM

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Henning

After doing a bunch of research on-line I decided to "Supertune" my Curado 201e7.  I polished up all the drag washers to mirror finish and installed Carbontex drags.  I also polished the inside of the pinion gear, the friction ring (that the inertia brakes run against), the ends of the spoolshaft as well as the raised portions of the shaft that come in contact with the pinion gear.  Lastly, I installed Abec 7 ceramic bearings. 

I went out and tested this reel with a light Zara Puppy knockoff (approximately 1/4 oz), casting it side by side with a stock 201e7.  Guess what....the stock 201e7 significantly outcast the Supertuned reel.  I know the Abec 7 bearings are good, because when I dropped them into the stock Curado I realized some improvement in distance, though underwhelming for what they cost.

Now I've read a lot of hype about Supertuning, so I can only assume I went wrong somewhere...ugh :P  Or did I?  Any tips would be really appreciated

ReelSpeed

Honestly, I know there are a ton of "supertune" disciples out there, but I have always had some issues with what is done...not to mention the way of testing the results.

I will elaborate a bit:

Polished drag washers?  - Didn't know guys were doing this.. just put greased carbontex in and fish it till you fingers hurt.  In that reel, those drag washers are gonna last forever.. no need to polish the drag washers.

Pinion gear polish - In that reel, you probably have a bearing supported pinion gear...which means it is pretty much pointless to polish it because in freespool the spool shaft is not resting against the pinion surface.  No effect here...  If you happened to get any oil or grease on the inside of the pinion gear, this could cause a very large slowdown in freespool/castability.. make sure this is dry.

Friction Ring - I know there are guys out there that use the brakes, and in this case if you do, then this could help...but for maximum casting distance..turn the brakes off.  no polish neeeded..

Ends of spoolshaft - Again..you want maximum distance and castability..back off the cast control knobs until you have a very small amount of play in the spool.  Then the spool ends don't rub, which means they don't need to be polished, and you get the maximum freespool.

Raised portion of spool shaft - see pinion gear..

Abec 7 bearings - Now..here is the important factor to everything.  If you back off your cast control knobs and spool brakes and have a bearing supported pinion gear, guess what is the only thing left when you are in freespool and trying to cast...THE BEARINGS!  Buying Abec 7 bearings does not in any way mean you will automatically get more freespool or better casting!  Unless the bearings are cleaned out properly and lubed with a good speed lube, you will not realize the maximum potential.  Abec 7 only means the bearings were made to a tighter tolerance..not faster or any other thing people come up with.  If I clean up a brand new Abec 1 bearing and do a good lube job, then it can/will spin as fast as Abec 5/7/ceramic.  

Anyway, to answer your main question..since you say you can drop the abec 7 bearings into the stock reel and see a increase in performance, then I would look to see if you got any oil or grease on the spool shaft or inside the pinion gear.  This would slow things down a bit and probably make a difference.  In the meantime, I would learn how to pull shields off the bearings..then clean them out with carb cleaner and relube with your favorite speed lube.  This is the true "supertune" and will be the thing that makes the most difference!

Aaron
Reelspeed Reel Service & Repair
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
(562) 261-5190

RWS

The new bearings, what brand are they ???? did U clean them first ????
On O/S Boca bearings they are better with the seals off. 
On ceramics use only 1 small drop of a light oil like OUST MeT OIL or Rem oil. Also Shimano reels U can play around with different brakes, Shimano has 4 different color brakes, Gray is heavy and then Green, Pink, and Clear is the lightest. How much Cast Control do U have on ???
Abec 7  Ceramic Bearings will only give U more with 3/8oz and under lures. When U say polish, I only use 2000 grit and up and a polishing compound, U do not want to take anything off just polish. Some reels will take a tune better then others.

Nessie Hunter

Im with ReelSpeed on this one...
Super tuning is like Tackle that catches more fisherman then fish!!
I first saw it when a Guy was doing it, and selling the service, sounds good, but most of those surfaces will lap/polish them self in a very short time...

The Ceramic bearings do have less rolling friction/resistance then metal/SS by over 30%.
In theory that means more or better freespool. 
I do a lot of Ceramic upgrades and see a much better/longer freespool..
BUT I dont clean and speed oil the old ones first either to compare them??

If you polish the metal Drag Plates to a high gloss finish, you are actually lowering the coefficient of friction ~ ergo less friction on washers = less drag pressure available.  IMHO..
There is a happy medium with that ~ to rough and they wear the Washers fast, overly polished you sacrifice Max drag pressure...  ???

As far as lack of expected freespool, here is my opinion and suggestions...
First, TSI 310 or Oust in Bearings (after cleaning/flushing even new ones). Some light 'quality' bearing speed oil......
2, same oil inside Pinion & shaft and pinion Bearing..
3, make sure, then recheck, that no grease migrated into Pinion.
4, Always make sure that no grease gets on end of spool ridges, or Frame where spool can touch it.  This is one thing I always check......!!!
Learned the hard way!!!

I upgraded (Carbontex & ceramic #7) and serviced 2 very clean Chronarchs for a guy..  Sent them back after a bench test, they were amazingly smooth and fast..
Couple of weeks later he says he is getting 20 ft casts from them??
Something is wrong!!!!!?????
I wrack my old brain and tell him they were amazing on the bench, the only possible problem I could imagine was Grease migrating out to spool from Bottom main shaft bearing (that I always clean & repack)...   

He cant figure out how to take out the spool & check??  Oh boy!!

He sends them back, as I suggested, sure enough, the grease had just slightly came out of a drain hole at bottom of that Bearing. That hole is partially in spool recess and got on edge of spool & frame.... 
2 min and they were amazingly fast again... Thats all it takes......
Night & Day Difference...
Of course it cost me shipping charges both ways.....  :-( 

Make sure no Grease migrates any where you dont want it to be.....
Clean and a drop of "Quality Speed" oil on those spool bearings.....
Cals grease on NON-Polished Drag plates....
Take off the Spool Brakes and back off Cast Control knob.  Try it again..

FYI: 
Polishing the Brake Friction Ring will often cause squeaking sound when casting if brake shoes rub it just right?????  Be aware....   
Even old rough ones will do it if they rub just right???



.
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intentions of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body. But rather to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming....
WOW!!! WHAT A RIDE!

Henning

Thanks everyone for the thorough feedback.  It's very helpful!  

I thought the performance problem might be that the spoolshaft was polished where it contacted the bearings, which would result in poor contact with the bearings and slippage.  I checked and this isn't the case.  I'll check for migrating grease.  

I generally run no pressure on the spool tensioner and 1 of the red (lightest) pins out.  So, I'm running very light centrifugal brakes.

The bearings that I'm running are the BOCA ABEC 7 CERAMIC BEARING/STAINLESS RACES WITH ORANGE SEALS.  The boca people told me that they were delivered dry without oil or grease, so I didn't clean them.  And, they said that they could be cast dry.  I've cast them with and without the seals. Dry and with Oust Met Oil.  I think they cast best without seals and with the oil.  

Though I get a a lot more spin time with the BOCAS (50 seconds, vs 23 with the stock bearings) I'm not gaining a ton on the water.  Usually I cast about 70-75 feet consistently with stock beargins and a small 1/4oz topwater stickbait. With the BOCAS I gain about 10-15 feet.  This is consistent on both my supertuned and stock reel with the BOCAS installed.

Is this about the improvement I should expect from the BOCAS?

redsetta

Great level of detail, lads - excellent post.
Quote...catches more fisherman than fish!!
Well said sir!  ;D
Cheers, Justin
Fortitudine vincimus - By endurance we conquer

Nessie Hunter

Henning;

You have about doubled the freespool time on the bench and added 20% distance to your field casting.  Not bad at all.....
They will get better with some use also......

Running the Ceramic dry as shipped, they are noisy (ceramic on S/S noise, light rattle) Oil will lower this, and 20 to 50+ casts should quite them down to normal & noiseless..
I can only guess that the Ceramic balls to SS races will LAP/SEAT itself into perfect form..

Some one told me (here we go, LOL) that Ceramic Balls are formed in a cast by filling it with loose material then Super pressure (Brazillion ton press??) causes the balls to heat/liquify & form to the round cast they are in.
Cooling and hardening for use....   
This may cause them to have a 'form ridge' or??? Not even sure this is how they are made???   
Just gossip & rumor, he said she said, a friend of a friend stuff....

Could be way off base on this??????????????????

I do know they get faster and quieter with a little use....


.
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intentions of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body. But rather to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming....
WOW!!! WHAT A RIDE!

wallacewt

get rid of the brakes
clean and oil bearings
thats it,simple

inhotpursuit

I personally always polish the metal drag surfaces before adding carbontex the process really improves the smoothness and the addition of the carbontex washers negates the loss of drag pressure in fact i find the carbontex washer does increase the pressure a little more over stock, i will settle for smoothness any day over brute force.
Heres an interesting article on the manufacturing process of ceramic bearings

http://www.engineersedge.com/bearing/ceramic_bearings.htm