Some help is needed in the fg- hard flouro

[gstours]

Maybe I'll get it?

[gstours]

THe knot fails the max pull test.  Looks good at first?

[gstours]

These are from my recent pictures files.   I am going to shorten the wrapping to see if this helps .... these are tied with tension,  larger line seems easier .   

[gstours]

Thanks again for everyone helping.  I'm not confident yet as I cannot pull that hard by hand 🖐.  Max pull is using both knees to help spread the knot.  With heavy gloves 🧤 on.   Later I will use a mechanical help

[boon]

Describe to me your finishing process?

If a half hitch or two slip off the tag end, that can be survived. If any of the wraps come off the knot will pull apart. I note that your wraps are coming apart before the knot breaks - when I pop an FG out fishing, the braid breaks just above the knot.

Once I've done the wraps, I finish the knot as follows:
4 alternating half hitches around the braid and mono. The first one of these needs to be pulled down tight, towards the standing part of the mono, to compress the wraps.
Then I do 4 alternating half hitches just around the braid, followed by a 3-4 turn Rizutto. Pull all of this fairly tight.

Now, the ESSENTIAL step, is to load the knot and let it settle BEFORE CUTTING THE TAG END OF THE MONO. This takes out the stretch in the knot itself and lets the braid bite into the leader. While you're doing this the braid/mono should go kinda translucent, as you have been achieving.

Finally, clip the tag end with maybe 2-3mm of mono exposed. This should be enough to absorb any further settling of the knot. For extra extra security, but more "click" as the knot passes the guides, you can slightly mushroom the end of the mono by heating with a lighter then squashing it with a licked finger.

[r8rs4lf]

Looking at your pictures, I'm not so sure your doing things in the right order.

After you finish however many wraps you are doing, are you pinching both lines so they don't move while you tie the first half hitch? This is important. The wraps must be tight against each other and when you finish the last wrap, pinch both lines so nothing moves. Then tie your first half hitch tight against the FG. At this point you can let it all go because the FG is locked in by that half hitch. Tighten that hitch, then grab your tool, glove or whatever your using and pull both lines tight. This is the pull that tightens the knot! This is the point when I see some minor stretch in the FG. After that, tie your other half hitches and rizzuto to finish.

After that first half hitch is tied and you go to pull tight on both lines, that knot should be tight and locked in! Like I said, I've seen very minor stretch of the knot after that step. When it's all done and you go to test the knot by pulling on it again, it shouldn't go anywhere or lengthen like in your pics because you have already pulled both lines tight.

If your not pulling the knot tight after that first half hitch, the FG is not locked in and that is what looks like is happening with your knots. Your pulling tight after your half hitches and rizzuto finish. There should be two pulls if your testing the knot. One after the first half hitch and one when it's all done which demonstrates a fish on.

Get yourself some type of dowel to pull the lines tight. It's a very effective tool that IMO is needed to get this knot tight.

[r8rs4lf]

I went out in the garage and did one for you to look at. I wanted to make sure I was giving you sound advice.

This is a 20 wrap FG done with 80# Max Cuatro with 30# mono.

1st pic- 20 wraps done with one "over" half hitch holding it all together.

2nd pic- Used my dowel around the braid and a glove in the other hand with the mono wrapped around about 5 times to pull tight. I never use a glove, but I did this time so I could pull as hard as I could. Here you can see the hitch knot gets a bit stretched.

*The tape tells me that this pic is the one where I pulled tight.*



3rd pic- FG is pulled tight. I added an "under" half hitch and pulled hand tight, a "over" half hitch, but going through the loop twice and cut the mono tight to the braid. After I cut the mono, I did one more "under" half hitch going through the loop twice and pulled hand tight. The knot is completely done at this point.

*The red marker tells me that it's a done deal.*



4th pic- ***FG knot test*** I wrapped the braid around my dowel and the mono around my gloved hand to test the knot. I pulled like crazy trying to break something! You can see back towards the hitch knots it gets stretched a bit, but nothing like your getting.

*The green F tells me that this is the finished product after I pulled like hell!*



Hope this helps!

[r8rs4lf]

Here is one more close up of the finished/pulled knot.

You can see by pulling hard on both lines (as if a fish was hooked), it gets a bit disfigured at the hitch knots. That is nothing to be concerned about because I could have just worked the knot with my finger to straighten it out, but I wanted to show you exactly how it looks right after I pulled tight.

I realize this is with mono, but flouro should be the same thing. Just pull hard on the initial tightening of the FG. Once you pull tight, the braid will bite into the flouro.

[mike1010]

...when I pop an FG out fishing, the braid breaks just above the knot...

Does anyone else wonder about abrasion from the leader tag end against the standing main line?  Probably not an issue with leaders lighter than 40 lbs., but maybe with heavier stuff, especially stiff leader material.  Buffering the tag end with half hitches around the main line is a help, but I still wonder.

[boon]

...when I pop an FG out fishing, the braid breaks just above the knot...

Does anyone else wonder about abrasion from the leader tag end against the standing main line?  Probably not an issue with leaders lighter than 40 lbs., but maybe with heavier stuff, especially stiff leader material.  Buffering the tag end with half hitches around the main line is a help, but I still wonder.

Food for thought, but I suspect it's not a big issue. Maybe with extremely heavy fluoro leaders? May warrant some additional testing.

[Keta]

I have never liked this knot, too hard to tie on the water.  Not counting the onshore prep time I can change out a topshot using L2L in a lot less time and usually have 6-10 each L2L topshots in various line weights in my tackle box.  It takes some tooling to build the L2L's but I have it. 

[Frank]

Hi Keta. Can you tell me what L2L stands for?

Thanks,

Frank

[r8rs4lf]

Hi Keta. Can you tell me what L2L stands for?

Thanks,

Frank

Loop to loop?

[Keta]

Yes, loop to loop.  The tooling cost to make L2L topshots is the only bad thing, my cost for the needles is over $11.00 each now, and might be $15.00.

[Frank]

Yes, loop to loop.  The tooling cost to make L2L topshots is the only bad thing, my cost for the needles is over $11.00 each now, and might be $15.00.

Thank you, Sir!