alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial when the drag tightens up on it's own.....
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: when the drag tightens up on it's own.....  (Read 14709 times)
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alantani
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« on: March 18, 2009, 08:18:36 AM »

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Alan, I am working on a fairly new Shimano Sustain 6000FE and 3000FE.  On the 6000FE the drag wants to tighten on its own.  i.e.  You set the drag,  then when you pull line of or turn the spool the drag knob also turns and the drag tightens.  The rubber washer in the drag knob almost seems to big for the ID of the spool or the spool ID is to small.  Anyone have this problem before?

... it means that the star of your star drag reel or the preset knob of your spinner is on contact with one of the sloted metal drag washers or (in the case of spinners) the spool itself.  here's a diagram of a typical star drag system from dawn of smoothdrag.com.



the square hole metal washers are typically referred to as "keyed" and the eared metal washers are "slotted".  star drag reels have a drag system that is number according to the number of fiber washers.  a "single" drag system will have a "fiber/keyed" stack inside the main gear.  a three drag system will have a "fiber/keyed/fiber/slotted/fiber/keyed" stack inside the main gear.  a five drag system will have a "fiber/keyed/fiber/slotted/fiber/keyed/fiber/slotted/fiber/keyed."   the important feature of this arrangement is that the star is in direct (via spacers or spring washers) to a keyed washer.  the keyed washer turns only when the drive shaft turns.  if you get the metal stack out of order and have a keyed washer on top, then the star moves (tightens) whenever the main gear or spool turn. 

this arrangement is the same in spinners, only you typically see only a single drag or 3 drag system, never a 5 drag system.  if that top metal washer is eared/slotted instead of square hole/keyed, then the preset knob will turn with the spool.  also, if there is something jammed in side of the preset knob so that there is direct contact with the spool in that manner, the preset knob will again turn with the spool.  yeah, clear as mud, huh!  hope this helps!  alan
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 09:04:31 AM »

   Alan I am have n some issues with getting the drag to stay set where i put it .  what happens is I set it then pull some line out and the drag tightens I did every thing the Booklet said as far as making sure the rubber washer is well lube so it wont stick but it still dose! Do you have a CURE DOC ?? Thanks in advance Gary

if you have a star drag or standard 3 stack spinning reel, then this will happen if you've reversed the order of the last two metal washers in the drag stack.  if you have an accurate sr 30 spinning reel, this would not apply.  somehow, the preset knob of you accurate is in direct contact with the spool so that it turn when your spool turns.  has anyone had this reel apart?  alan

Yes The reel has come apart before as it is My cousins reel and not mine but he gave it to me to see if I knew anybody that could fix it with out have n to wait on Accurate Sad Lucky me LOL !!  as far as the drag gose he was only able to mess up the # 82 disc spring washer orientation which when i took it apart was ))) I went on Acc web site they have it clear that it should be ()( that was it ! But for some reason It still catches and turns the drag shaft nut which in turns  means a whole lotta DRAG !!!!!

here's the schematic for the sr 30 http://accuratefishing.com/pdfs/sr_30_50_ipb.pdf  somewhere inside there are parts out of order or even parts missing.  you can lay things out, take photos and get those photos to accurate and they should be able to help.  e-mail them to me as well and i will take a look, though i've never had one of these apart before.  it looks fairly straight forward.  i don't mean to sound like an old cynic, but my first guess is that someone dropped a washer on the floor and didn't notice. 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:12:02 AM by alantani » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 04:58:23 PM »

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Alan,  I have a Penn 7500SS that has some issues.  The drag knob cracked and I had it at a reputable tackle store in Houston where they replaced it, and respooled with 30lb mono.  During the re-spool, the tech told me that the spool seemed to have been forced down over the "keyed parts??" in the past and bent some parts.  He said that they replaced the workings and the drag worked fine.  However, after getting home and trying to test drag settings, the drag knob tightens on its own when pulling line and snapped the line.  I can only imagine a fish doing the same (and this is going to be a kingfish/wahoo caster so I can expect long fast runs) and popping the line every time.  Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.


it sounds like the metal washers are out of order. take a look at this one. http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=279.0 please let me know if this works. thanks! alan


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I have take numerous looks at this and at the Penn schmematics, have taken apart and put it all back several times, have even changed it out with Carbontex drag washers (replacing the teflon washer with carbon fiber) with no success.  Hex washer (round eye), teflon washer, round washer (keyed eye), carbon fiber washer, hex washer (round eye), carbon fiber washer, round washer (keyed eye), spring wire, new drag knob.  I keep getting the contact between the drag knob and spool after about 15-16 lbs of drag.  When testing the drag, it quickly builds to 27Lbs plus and pops the 30lb main line.
I am going to go back to Fishing Tackle Unlimited one more time and wait until I can show them exactly what is happening.  I am at a loss.
 
Regards,
 
Tom


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Alan,
 
IT'S FIXED!!!!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOOO, LOL
 
I took it back to FTU, and the guy who originally helped me replace my drag knob worked with me.  I showed them what what was happening, and we proceeded to take apart and re-build the reel twice.  Metal shavings near the drive shaft indicated some definite metal on metal contact.  He told me that everything was in the proper order, as I had thought.  I also told him, I thought the reel was seating too deep on the drive shaft.  That's when we started looking at the drag knob.  He went to find the same reel and compare. Wouldn't you know it, the replacement drag knob was the WRONG one.  The wrong knob was tapered and shallow compared to the deeper parallel shape of the correct knob.  We put the correct knob on, tested the drag.  It pulled very smoothly and and was able to max out the drag at 17lbs (Penn 7500 SS with 30lb mono) before the next turn locked up.  Smooth pulling with no hint of tightening up on its own. 
 
Look out snapper, kings and wahoo.
 
Alan, thank you so very much for all your input.  I appreciated the time you took to answer all my questions.  Good luck with everything.
 
Best Regards,
 
Tom
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