alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial grouper fishing - what do you guys use?
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November 20, 2019, 05:54:51 AM *
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Author Topic: grouper fishing - what do you guys use?  (Read 2238 times)
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alantani
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« on: May 24, 2018, 07:31:51 AM »

what do you guys use? 


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On Thursday, May 24, 2018, 6:41:52 AM PDT, mike wrote:


...Hello Alan Follow...your posts and Had you do work on my reel a few yrs ago ... hope all is well! Your advice is greatly appreciated and respected. I am Fishing 80 lb straight mono..Need about 200 yd reel capacity..Want something built real tough..strong gear/s..something with some winching power to turn their heads from getting in a hole 30 -60 lb fish
no more than about  40 ounces tops as far as weight..Can cast ok...Using live bait mostly..
Best, Mike

Quote
grouper, right?  dropping straight down over structure.  short answer - a old beat up 6/0 penn 114h filled two thirds of the way with 80 pound mono on a old meat stick.

how much drag does this reel need to be able to generate?  how much have you been using?  most guys don't know or don't check.  typically you would set a reel to 30% of the line weight, meaning 24 pounds of drag for 80 pound test mono, unless you were just using the heavy line for abrasion resistance.  with a high drag setting and 200 yards of straight 80 pound mono, a $600 penn torque 40 narrow comes to mind, or the $500 avet hx raptor.  if you only need 15 pounds of drag, then a fathom two speed lever drag or plain avet hx (the non-raptor version).  also, for true head turning power, mono is generally a poor choice because of the 15% stretch in the line when the drag is set to 30%. 

so the problem i see immediately is the mono.  mono is not how you "turn heads."  braid has zero stretch at all drag settings, so the only give is in the drag system of the reel and rod, or just the rod if the drag is set high enough.  how about an avet raptor hxj with 300 yards of straight 80 pound braid, and 24 pounds of drag at strike.  you can even add a 25 foot topshot of 100 pound fluorocarbon.  but we're not done yet. 

you see, mike, there are three parts to this equation.  first is the line, second is the reel and third is the rod and we haven't even addressed the rod.  it would look pretty goofy it you put an avet hxj on a $500 united composites centaur (this is your classic 80 pound stick, but it might look pretty good on a phenix black diamond hybrid rod.  my 80 pound rigs are centaurs or super seeker rods with penn 16's or makaira 16's and 500 yards of 100 pound braid and a 25 yard topshot of 80 pound fluoro.  regardless, you are talking about a  $500-600 reel.  on the flip side, you could fish with a $150 stock 6/0 penn 114h that was loaded two thirds of the way with 200 yards of 80 pound on an old beat up meat stick and the fish would never be able to tell the difference. 

what are you fishing with now?  alan


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handi2
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« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2018, 07:55:27 AM »

Here in northwest Florida they use 250lb braid and 300 to 400 lb. mono leader. I have built some 6/0 and 9/0 reels for them that target these fish. Any lighter leader gets cut off on the wrecks or live bottom.
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« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2018, 08:04:49 AM »

he didnt say anything about price of the reel, so, if he left that door open then there are many options outhere, but currently not many use 200yds of straight 80 mono even on big heavy reels.

what I have seen so far here in my town for fishing groupers on the range 30-60# are:

talica 25 or 50 with 300yds 100# braid / long leader 120# mono
makaira 15 SEa with 300# braid / short 80# mono or no leader (my setup)
113h locked drags filled with 100# braid / short leader 60# mono or no leader
114h locked drags with 300 yds 100# braid / filled with 100# mono or no leader
Penn international 50T or 50s with 300 yds 150# braid / filled with 200 or 400# mono (for bigger fish)
penn Baja Special 300yds 80# braid/ short 80# mono leader
sealine 900h with 300 yds 150# braid / filled with 120# mono (my 2d setup)

as you can see, eventho 114h and big international reel could use straigth 80 mono, many local guys use 300yds of 100 braid for line capacity and fill the rest of the spool with the choice of leader.

many of the rods on those reels are the XXH models of terez, phenix, seeker, penn mariner standup rods, etc.





« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 08:05:37 AM by steelfish » Logged
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Nick - Tampa, FL


« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2018, 08:08:55 AM »

Here in northwest Florida they use 250lb braid and 300 to 400 lb. mono leader. I have built some 6/0 and 9/0 reels for them that target these fish. Any lighter leader gets cut off on the wrecks or live bottom.
I need to re-spool my 6/0.
Right now iím loaded with 80lb braid and 80lb mono topshot.
I still havenít used it on the water though

Nick
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« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2018, 12:15:26 PM »

mike's reply....

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Hi Alan yes to the black grouper  fishing 80 lb mono only..as the boat allows NO BRAID we are Anchored 80 -120 ft...Ironically regarding your response about Penn Reels..yes that's exactly what I first used.. then graduated to the Daiwa Sealine series 350,400 & 600's  used smooooth drag washers in them (still have a few).Then ventured into Shimano TLD 25Ss..also tried a Tibuturon  SMARTshift..but lever drags are not very user friendly for
Countless shifts inbetween free spool & strike to feed out line.This is necessary in order (to keep your sinker from bouncing on the bottom ..as the boat rises up & down).
I have your Torium 50 upgrade you did with the dbl dog..no problems a little noisy but ok and worththe piece of mind it gives me now. This reel is excellent winding on  GROUPER 20 lbs or under..just seems like the gearing  4.9 +1 wants to bind up on the real big grouper 35 lbs up...seems like it's a some kind of a mechanical/gear equation or something ...its like
anything above 4.0 binds..up..
Used an  OLDER Black Penn 6/0 gear ratio was like 2. 1  and got them up ..but no one wants to hold that much weight all day particularly as I'm  older now ya know?
I  "heard" the lower geared 2 speed reels added a whole new dimension to cranking on  these fish..I. have researched just about EVERY REEL available including the Avet s..but the handle winding pressure gets to be too much relative to max preset & strike position..and you can't easily move the lever if it's too tight a drag..its kinda confusing to me Alan
As you know ..there no 2 speed Star Drag reels available ..dont know why..really...but just wanted to check with you last..before I gave up possibly of getting  ..a new technology  gear.. Everything is a compromise..If you get a low gear reel..it  seems it takes forever to get to the surface (from 120 ft)..High gear and your reel won't crank or "turn"...anyway thats  my experience in Florida.
Best!'
Mike

i'm thinking maybe the avet hxj raptor with 300 yards of straight 80 pound braid. 
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Bill B (Tarfu)
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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2018, 12:58:54 PM »

Just throwing this out there....Penn 349 HC......3.25:1, might be a little tight on line capacity, or a South African 349A that is wider, but as the spool fills the retrieve rate goes up (faster than a nearly empty spool).  Wont be able to get 20 lbs usable drag, but you could button down the drag.....or the more available 113HLW which has the same gear ratio and larger line capacity......Bill
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« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2018, 01:21:32 PM »

I was thinking a 349HC with a wahoo special kit. I just don't see spending money on a Penn International for a grudge match. I've seen 180# halibut caught with a Penn 330LD. Sometimes I think we forget we are just fishing.
I whole heartedly agree with as little mono as you can get away with. Mono is just not the deal anymore.
Ron
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Ronald Jones
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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2018, 03:16:45 PM »

I've been fishing for grouper around Florida (Gulf, Atlantic & Keys) 20 - 25 trips a year for the last 30 years.  For grouper it's hard to beat a Penn 113H, 114H, Diawa 400 or 600 loaded with 80 or 100lb mono mounted on a meat stick. (You don't have to spend a fortune for these outfits either.)  Braided line on newer lever drag and 2 speed reels are OK if you know what you are doing but I have seen a lot of hooks pulled and fish broken off because there was no give in the line. 

Like a lot of people I've graduated to more expensive and lighter gear.  My go-to is a Daiwa Star drag Saltiga loaded with 65 lb braid on an 8" CalStar Grafighter.   I always use a 25 -30 foot mono top shot so that there is a little bit of give if a large fish "surges" against the line.
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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2018, 05:29:25 PM »

If only they allowed braid... would run 80lb braid with a short 200lb topshot on something like a Makaira 16 or Talica 20.
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« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2018, 07:46:34 PM »

After listening to this topic I started wondering why you folks donít lengthen the crank arm a half inch or more togainthe leverageyou need .  Your not trolling w no weights.  A two speed then would be easier to reel as most have 4.5/1 or more gear ratio.   Thatís hurtful for bottom fisherman 🐡
  Just saying.🤷‍♀️
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2018, 12:59:16 PM »

I have extended handles on a number of my reels but you have to be careful.  Sometimes the gears can't handle the torque/leverage you gain.
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2018, 01:50:12 PM »

I'm adding a link to one of our most successful charter boat captains here in northwest Florida. Capt Delynn.

I take care of his reels along with most all other Captains in my area.

He targets big fish using big live baits.

He uses 2 of the Penn 9/0 reels that have been upgraded with half frame, stock steel gears, ss gear sleeve, double dogs, and the drag Insert.

His customers bring there own mix of reels.

I mentioned above that he uses 250lb braid and up to 400lb leader.

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f21/2017-fishing-capt-delynn-sigler-819833/

Keith
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2019, 08:55:28 AM »

Penn 6/0 with 150 lb braid and a 25 ft top shot of 100 lb mono. You still have the sensitivity on the braid and the top shot gives you some give. 
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wideopenoutdoors
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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2019, 12:18:09 PM »

In the Gulf (Florida West Coast), we use Penn 113h (4/0) for grouper. The 4/0 seems just right for targeting them in shallow water (approx. 12-20 ft) all the way out to the middle grounds (100-130ft), the 4/0 even works great for trolling for groupers over the really shallow rocks (6-12 ft). You could use the 6-9/0 if you were really having a problem getting them in, however, I have brought in approx. 30lb gags in with the 4/0. We fill the reel with 80lb mono with an egg swivel, a swivel, then about 3-6ft (depending on water depth) of 120lb mono for the abrasion against the rocks. This setup has proved its self against sharks, Goliath Groupers, and Kingfish.
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