alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Pre war LH reels
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
April 25, 2019, 02:34:59 PM *
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Author Topic: Pre war LH reels  (Read 235 times)
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milne
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« on: April 15, 2019, 02:06:12 AM »

A question to the learned.

When did Penn start labelling LH reels ??
I have a later Penn senator 4/0 LH reel, but I'm talking about Pre war,
To be exact, an early Silver Beach.
Did they not mark them as such that early on, or could this early silver beach have just been converted as such.
I will pull it apart and have a wee peek, but not to sure what I would be looking for.
I originally got this reel last year, cleaned it up put it back together and to be honest never so much as gave it a second thought.
They were available as a LH version as mentioned in mikes book, but how would you tell if it was a modification or factory ?
I actually managed to score another 97 model, which is a RH model which arrives soon, so kind of nice to have both versions, but still interested
in the LH version I have already.......

Col

Add,    I've pulled it apart tonight to have a look inside, I'll take some photo's tomorrow, not seen this on other reels I've pulled down
          And cleaned up, mind you they were all RH reels.....
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 03:30:29 AM by milne » Logged
milne
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 08:59:59 PM »

Once I pulled this 97 Silver beach apart, I realised I hadn't done it before, it was put straight on the shelf with the 98.
So, in me trying to find out whether this was just a conversion afterwards or a factory LH reel, as there is know marking on the plug
like a couple of my other much later reels have to indicate it was indeed a factory LH reel.
So, obviously the teeth on the gear would spin the other way,,
But this is a first for me, to see the spring on the dog, what looks like it being brazed permanantly to the dog.
All others I've had ( RH Pre war reels) the spring is totally separate of the dog and go other way up.

Probably old hat for you blokes, I haven't really done to much so far with my reels, apart from strip and clean the corrosion, so it was interesting
to check out this Pre War Silver beach LH version and compare the difference. It looks to me, like no one would go to this effort to change it from RH to LH so I would probably call it factory,,,  quite happy with that as mentioned I scored another 97 which id a RH version, so that sort of completes my silver beach tally with the Pre War models.

Col


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alantani
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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 10:42:59 PM »

someone had quite a bit of imagination when they installed both the dog and the dog spring backwards!  i'll bet it slipped under a load. 
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milne
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2019, 10:59:18 PM »

Hi Alan,
             So, what your saying is, that this would not be a factory version of there LH model ?
         I don't have another Pre war LH model to compare too.

Col
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2019, 11:03:37 PM »

i really don't see how this could have been a stock configuration.  the dog is backwards!   Undecided
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milne
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2019, 11:14:30 PM »

Ok,   So how could this have been fitted, to make it a LH reel ??  or of this era, what did they change up inside ?
     Obviously I haven't fished it, it arrived like this and noticed it was LH wind, But, no side plate marking. ( 39-40)
   They seemed to have gone to a lot of trouble to convert it when LH options were available, especially brazzing the spring onto the dog,, I would have loved to have had another LH Pre War in my collection to compare, but not that lucky.. ( yet)......
 Hmm interesting.

Col
  
PS.   I just re assembled everything and that dog fits really tightly into that gear, I was giving it a fair amount of grief to see how much pressure
        it could take, couldn't make it slip. The angle of the end of the dog, lines up and locks in pretty shmick to the gear when assembled.
        Who's got a LH long beach of the era, that can strip it and take a photo Huh?   
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 11:43:17 PM by milne » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 11:37:58 PM »

oh, crud, i see what you mean.  yes, this would work for a left handed reel.  i would have ground out the side plate to accommodate the dog and spring on the left side, rather than  go through these conniptions!  i've never seen this before, but it's an interesting reel!
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milne
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2019, 11:52:38 PM »

Hi Alan,   HAHA, yes, I read your reply and had to go sit in the office for a while to see if it could go another way LOL
     I probably didn't explain it properly either.
   I've not seen the spring Brazed on the dog like this before, mind I've not seen an early LH for that matter.  They cost $1 more for the LH version back then, So maybe this was there alternative cost effective way of changing or modifying it to a  LH model  they sold back then,  I suppose the  "better way " you described, cost to much, labour wise in the day.  interesting yeah.....
Other than this set up, there's no markings to call it a LH version, just it's action.

Still would luv to compare it with another Pre war LH model though to confirm it wasn't a "very " handy mans version....

Cheers Alan

Col
  
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 12:00:41 AM by milne » Logged
oc1
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 12:12:09 AM »

Is the head plate a mirror image of RH or is it just flipped around with the clutch lever on the front of the reel and handle toward the rear?  With the dog reversed and reverse threads on the sleeve and star the same side plate could be used except for the ergonomics of clutch lever and handle placement.
-steve
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milne
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2019, 12:29:26 AM »

Hi Steve,
           The latest purchase which hasn't arrive yet, is the RH version 97, so I don't have that in front of me yet.
  But from photo's both reels look identically set up in configuration, you wouldn't know unless you turned the handle.
 So ( until the RH one arrives)  from what I can see, the only difference is internally with the spring brazed on the dog and the gear on the sleeve both reversed inside, making it LH wind. ( hope I explained that properly)  All else on the outside looks exactly the same.  On my LH 4/0 Senator, its stamped, but even the star drag is opposite thread,  but this star drag is a righty tighty like my other star drag Pre war reels.
 It appears all else is the same.

Col
  
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 12:30:46 AM by milne » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2019, 11:37:57 AM »

 I have seen this same dog and spring on a 1st gen 12/0. The spring is shoved into a slot that has been cut in the dog.

 This is a lefty, so it appears the dog is correct to engage onto a lefty gear sleeve ratchet
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 11:39:36 AM by Maxed Out » Logged

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oc1
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2019, 12:00:58 PM »

If the star is righty-tighty then the sleeve is righty-tighty and the only thing keeping the handle on is the little keeper screw in the scalloped handle screw.  It is either a user modification or Penn was not very serious about making LH reels.

The brazed dog spring seems strange too.  Brazing the spring to the dog will ruin the temper in the spring and it will not be springy.

-steve
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 12:07:54 PM by oc1 » Logged
milne
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2019, 02:19:00 PM »

Hi Guys,
           My Eyes aren't what they used to be !
      Ted is 100 % right, the dog has a deep slot cut into it and the spring is pushed in,  and after cleaning it up properly you can clearly see it. There was a build up of gunk in that area,  which I incorrectly assumed  it was brazed.
 I don't know whether someone would go to the trouble or not of reversing the gear sleeve ratchet and slotting out the dog to turn it into a lefty, I guess it was fairly early on for Penn, perhaps they weren't too serious about left hand reels back then, i don't know.  looking at Mikes book, the only other left hand reels up until this Silver Beach in 38, were a Coronado, the long beaches and the 115&116 Senators.
It's all very interesting anyways,  I shall now have to search for an early LH Longbeach and compare it to this set up, I can't find any literature on it, or as previously questioned, when they started marking the plugs, LH reels as such.

Col


   
           
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milne
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2019, 08:38:22 PM »

My Second Silver Beach 97 arrived today, so I could compare it to the factory/altered one we have been discussing.
 It is a mirror image of the one in question, internally, it's as per normal RH set up as far as the dog and spring go.
I may be onto an early Long Beach LH reel at the minute, so hopefully I can secure it and compare and confirm what this Silver Beach is,
I shall tag the new one a RH model and pop it on the shelf and put the other to one side at this point until I check on this Long Beach. The long Beach LH I'm chasing is boxed, So it should tell us if the Silver Beach was a Penn modification or some enthusiastic left handed fisho !!!.
Interesting all the same.....

Col
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milne
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2019, 09:11:00 PM »

Well, it turns out this thread was probably a waste, I searched the big Orca site and came up with a thread Mike had on early LH reels.
In it he shows a photo of a 1930's bay head, which is exactly the same as my Silver Beach.
They supposedly started making LH reels in the 30's to order, and this is how they were done. Mike mentions that they had to mill out some material
of the head plate, which did weaken it some what, but this indeed, was The handy work of Penn and how LH Penn reels came out in the 30's.
By the 1940's, they then changed the modification, as Alan mentioned what would be a better option, and milled out both sides so they could be made as
either a LH or RH reel. So it seems in there infancy, up unto the 1940's this was Penn's answer to a LH reel.
I'm not computer literate enough to paste the thread onto here, but can be found in the search function, typing in LH penn reels.
Good enough for me, so the tag LH goes on this baby and onto the shelf it goes and thus fills the hole in my Silver Beach hunt.....
 Grin

Col
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