1st project, pimping out my Senator

[thorhammer]

you prolly need to shim the spool. you may also put a delrin washer under the sleeve which would tighten the slop i think you are referring to. Honestly, with everything else you have in place, I'd see if I could find Cortez plates for it.

[mo65]

   I feel I am getting an ever so slight rub when winding, a very faint rubbing sound. I will have to crack it open again to inspect, but it just feels like something is rubbing, whether it's the spool, not sure.
   I liberally greased everything as I went along,  I fitted the new S/S gear sleeve on the bridge, fitted the pin, That being just a metal to metal fit, Is that a specific area where I should have really packed with grease ?
   Free spinning the spool, that noise isn't there, giving it a spin with the thumb is giving me about 17-20 seconds of spool spinning !

   I've ran into this rubbing problem myself when switching to steel gear sleeves. That steel pin isn't going to break in as easy as brass, and sometimes it has a rub...rub...rub...as it spins on the post. This is why it disappears when in free spool. Of course time and use will smooth it out, but the best way to eliminate it is to just spool 'er up.

[milne]

Hi guys,  Thanks for every ones feed back.
        Mo, I didn't think of that, that makes sense why it seems to be gone when free spooling.
 For some reason I was thinking about the gear sleeve on the bridge fitting, thinking I hadn't packed enough grease in between there.
      I will change out the under gear washer to a derilin one, I don't like that slop which I have in the handle, so I will have a play with it.
  I'm going to do the same with my second 113h and as mentioned, they wont really get tested till next year when the boats back on the water, so I have plenty of time to tinker and adjust things.
Rowdy, I have a wide aluminium spool and your right, the weight difference between the two would be a great option I think !
Plus as I mentioned, I want to service the bearings properly and check them out, so still more to do.
Gee,  it doesn't end when pimping these old girls up !
But I guess that's the fun of it .
Thanks for the feed back guys.

Col

   

[Alto Mare]

Nice job Col!...looks great!

Sal

[Brewcrafter]

Col - That is an awesome looking reel and Good Job!

[Brewcrafter]

Also, I just finished doing a similar one over the weekend, and when you mentioned handle slop I had the same issue and here is what I found.  I am NOT bagging on any of the parts or manufacturers; any time you get into the world of "custom aftermarket" things will many times need massaging to play nice.  In my case the stock Penn handle nut has a fillet or "shoulder" under it, and the aftermarket SS sleeve was cleanly machined, whereas the original Penn sleeve had a slight "chamfer" or "countersink" to it the allowed the handle nut to engage further into the threads (maybe another full turn?) so that when the handle nut was as tight as I dared get it, the handle itself still had play since the handle nut was not threaded as far as with the stock sleeve.  Solution (since I don't have the cajones or skill to Dremel a chamfer into my new $$ $leeve) was I added a thin SS shim washer between the nut and outside of the handle, so that when full engaged the handle is locked solidly to the sleeve.  You might want to see if that is the source of some of your handle slop. - Brewcrafter

[milne]

Thanks for that BrewCrafter, 
        My after market handle, I just noticed now, is a lot thicker than the stock Penn handle. I had to file a tad off the new sleeve end for the handle to fit, even the standard Penn one was to small, no problem tho, easily done. However in looking at it, the sleeve only fits about half way into the aftermarket handle, which to me, it would be nice to have the sleeve go into the handle and finish slightly below the outer edge of the handle as the standard one does.
I have about a couple of turns on the star drag, between the inner edge of the handle and for it to have contact on the spacer sleeve,  and it seems to be about a turn and a half on the star, from start to full drag.   The play in the handle, is the whole sleeve assembly moving, Not a huge amount, but enough to be of concern when loaded up and a 50LB kingfish on the end.  I am concerned with that and now only half the thickness of the sleeve end is in the handle shank, would be a lot more solid if indeed it was in further, but isn't contributing to the actual "handle slop"  I have.

Cheers
Col

[milne]

Just another question guys
I just had to have a fiddle before dinner tonight !
I had an old orange coloured under gear washer, which was out of this reel originally, ( not sure what its made of) I wanted to see if it was thicker than the one supplied with the 7+1 stack drag system I'm using.  It was slightly thicker, but made no difference to the handle slop that's happening, if fact it may have felt worse.  once reassembled with that washer in, I had the whole head plate assembly with handle attached so while putting side to side pressure on the handle and looking underneath, you can actually see the the movement/slop in question between the gear on the bottom of the sleeve and the bridge plate, it's in all directions that you move the handle in, it's quite excessive and ofcourse when the reel is assembled, it's felt alot more with the longer after market handle. But actually seeing the movement makes me think that that isn't right,  well, it feels wrong at the handle end anyways.
I don't have a small thin punch here at home to remove the sleeve and have a good look at it taken off.  I did grab an old parts reel, with a stock bridge and sleeve still assembled for a comparision and while there obviously is some lateral movement, I don't think its as much as i'm getting with this new set up, it's clear to see the gear moving.  So, if it's all fitted correctly, which I'm pretty confident it is, then this must just be the tolerances ?
I guess then, I'll have to look at options, someone mentioned to me that you can offer up some form of shim  under the sleeve which may eliminate some play ? is this an option ?
Any help or advice on this would be gratefully accepted............

Col
 

[thorhammer]

I meant a delrin washer under the sleeve itself, not under the gear. I think Sal has a thickness measurement for this...

John

[milne]

I meant a delrin washer under the sleeve itself, not under the gear. I think Sal has a thickness measurement for this...

John

Hi John, yes, sorry for not responding, I did read your comment, thanks for that.
I was talking with someone else at the same time as well on messaging and they confirmed the same thing, a Derilin washer under the sleeve itself helped to eliminate "slop", and also to use one under the gear, rather than the supplied drag washer ( separate reasons)
Hopefully Sal will read this and advise on the measurements or availability etc for me to try.

After you also commented on the Cortez side plates, I drifted off looking for info on them, John, this pimping is becoming endless !!!
I haven't found out too much about them yet, I might leave this one with the original Penn side plates, BUT, my second 113h I want to pimp up as well I
might look at going the whole hog with that one, and as Rudy suggested, an aluminium spool, I kinda like this one with that vintage look of the original plates. Then there's the narrow framed one that I can see a use for !!!!!
I guess there's always fitment issues along the way with anything you do like this, if it was minimal slop, I probably wouldn't have noticed as such, but it's clearly a lot more than that.
Thanks for your help John, appreciated

Col

[milne]

Ok,
     So I thought I would completely strip everything down again, to have a good close look at the bridge plate and sleeves actual fitment, to try and
   have a look at the tolerances.  The current slop at the handle, as mentioned, makes this reel unfishable.
I even re installed the original brass single dog plate and original sleeve, which has all but eliminated, or improved the handle slop and at least made the reel fishable.  
To me, it's seems like a machining quality issue, surely everyone of these Mod's sold from what I've read, haven't had this particular issue or comments would have been made, which I haven't managed to find or read. So  I'm going to order another complete set for my other 113h and in the mean time try and see what I can do myself, to somehow get a better fitment of the set I have, not sure what I can do, but I don't mind having a play with it.

I understand that there has been the use of a shim under the sleeve to address this issue, but I can't seem to find any discussion anywhere from the searches I made. It looks to me that the hole for the pin in the sleeve would dictate whether a shim was necessary, as shimming would lift the sleeve up closer to the pin itself and reduce inward/outward movement of the handle assembly, and I guess it would help reduce overall slop, which is what I am seeing on the new S/S assembly comparing to the standard stock bridge there is definitely outward slop due to pin placement, much more than the stock one. However its the lateral movement of the sleeve on the bridge post which is markedly more than the standard bridge sleeve assembly.  I'll take both sets to my workshop in the morning and put the micro meter on both bridge posts and the internal diameter of both sleeves.
This will only reveal between the two I have, the differences in clearance the two bridge posts have inside the sleeve, but the standard brass one is a lot tighter by pure feel, which I'm sure will show up with a micrometer. I would have though you could have at least the same, or probably tighter tolerances when upgrading to S/S.
Interesting and frustrating altogether 


Col  

[milne]

It's Friday night, it's raining and winter is approaching, so what else is there to do 

With out yet getting a micro meter on things, one very noticeable tolerance difference, in a position that would contribute to a large percentage
of slop, regardless of the actual post tolerances, is in the photo below.  ( sorry for the bad photography)
At the base of the post on the bridge plate, is a larger knurled circular section, with a corresponding larger hole in the base of the sleeve.
The old worn brass sleeve fits relatively snuggly into this section, more than acceptable and would suspect the old sleeve has wear.  The new s/s sleeve is way to loose and sloppy in there, being at the base of the set up, this issue would be the main culprit contributing to my issue me thinks !

Col

[Alto Mare]

Hello Col, you call it bad photography, I call it great  , It is actually a good pic.
The gear sleeve should have two holes for the pin, try both and see which feels better.

Sal

[milne]

Hi Sal,
           I originally tried that, but I just quickly tried the other hole again, there was a lot more slop. So the one I had it in is the tightest of
       The two.  I didn't fit it back in the reel, just felt by hand, that was enough to see which was already was in the "firmer" option hole.
    You can actually see the movement on that bottom gear as you hold the bridge plate in your hand and put pressure on the sleeve.
     I guess because there's no "bushing" or anything supporting the sleeve at the side plate, any movement at the base of the bridge will seem
    huge, especially with hand on knob winding.   I even went down to my factory, I have 4 other 113h's, all standard that I fish with, they do have some
   play, but only a 1/3 of this one. I removed the standard handle and put this longer one of this reel, thinking that the longer handle made it feel sloppier,  
   that wasn't the case, they felt ok.   As mentioned, the old brass sleeve feels less sloppier on the new double dog bridge..
    Something is amiss.

Col

[Black Pearl]

Hi Sal,
           I originally tried that, but I just quickly tried the other hole again, there was a lot more slop. So the one I had it in is the tightest of
       The two.  I didn't fit it back in the reel, just felt by hand, that was enough to see which was already was in the "firmer" option hole.
    You can actually see the movement on that bottom gear as you hold the bridge plate in your hand and put pressure on the sleeve.
     I guess because there's no "bushing" or anything supporting the sleeve at the side plate, any movement at the base of the bridge will seem
    huge, especially with hand on knob winding.   I even went down to my factory, I have 4 other 113h's, all standard that I fish with, they do have some
   play, but only a 1/3 of this one. I removed the standard handle and put this longer one of this reel, thinking that the longer handle made it feel sloppier,  
   that wasn't the case, they felt ok.   As mentioned, the old brass sleeve feels less sloppier on the new double dog bridge..
    Something is amiss.

Col

Hi Col,

That does not make sense at all on the bridge and the sleeve. They should fit just right. I have not had any complaint on those parts getting along. Have you tried to use the brass sleeve on the DD bridge? If the issue still happens, you might want to return the parts to the seller, and I will take a look at it when the seller gets them back.
Sorry for the inconvenience.

—Alan