an early neglected 180

Started by milne, April 24, 2019, 11:01:10 AM

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milne

Was procrastinating with a severely neglected 180, which has been sitting in a box for some time.
Sorry I didn't take a Pre strip down photo, But it took me near a week soaking it just to get side plate screws out, the spool was stuck in the head plate.
It had obviously sat for some time.
What caught my eye when I was going thru the box, was the handle. I only have 2 others similar, a 38 Silverbeach with a black handle and a  long beach Duval red handled one. I really luv these types of handles. all the other Pre war reels I have, don't have this type of handle.
How long was this type handle used for ?
Could I then conclude this would be a 38 first year 180, it does have the tell tale pre war coin edge on the counter weight and free spool lever.
It doesn't really worry me so much about whether the 180 is a 38 first year, just really wanted to find out more about these types of handles.
The photo doesn't really show up the colour, which is a deep green,,,    half way thru soaking the handle in a saucer of vinegar and water.....

Col

P.S  DOH, posted this then realised there was a specific thread for handles !!!
       If someone can re'post it there for me, that would be great.

mo65

Hi Col,
   according to Mike's book that style handle was used on the 180 in '39 and '40 only...with '39 being the first year for the 180. 8)
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


milne

Hey Mo,
            Well, I can't even read Mikes book properly !
    Opened it up and swore I read 38 was when they were introduced, you are 100% correct, it was 39.
  Couldn't find any reference to the actual handle, as you did,  I think it's time I seriously start wearing those looking glasses for reading !

Mo, out of all my handles on Penn's that I have collected, these ones just pop out,  something about them.
This 180, will not be a show pony by the time I clean her up, but the handle should make up for the heavy patina'd look.
Thanks Mo

Col

mo65

   I got that info from the green book Col. I have all three books, and recommend all three. Here's a pic of that page from the green book.
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


Maxed Out

#4
 The wood knob this shape is very common.....what is uncommon is the oil port and the color. It's screams late 30's all day every day !!

Ted
We Must Never Forget Our Veterans....God Bless Them All !!

milne

Quote from: Maxed Out on April 24, 2019, 05:01:12 PM
The wood knob this shape is very common.....what is uncommon is the oil port and the color. It's screams late 30's all day every day !!

Ted
Thanks Ted,  Yes, I have plenty of the other style, but when one of these pop up I take note.
Quote from: mo65 on April 24, 2019, 02:41:39 PM
   I got that info from the green book Col. I have all three books, and recommend all three. Here's a pic of that page from the green book.

Hi Mo,  Ahh,  That's why I didn't see this, I have the blue and the yellow books, not the green.
      Thanks for posting it up.

Cheers
Col

milne

#6
Hi Guys,
           I had trouble removing the spool from the head plate when disassembling, I sort of figured out why now,
      I've had it soaking for a few days, but am unable to free the pinion from the spool.
  Any Idea's gratefully accepted.

Col

Fishy247

I'd soak it in a penetrating oil for a bit, then use the 2 screwdriver trick. I can't find the thread, but you use 2 small flat head screwdrivers. put one on each side in the small gap between the shoulder and the pinion. Then simply twist both of the screwdrivers at the same time, in the same direction. This will create a straight up force from the bottom of the pinion without putting any side to side pressure on the shaft. If you don't have a way to keep the spool, it'll be a bit more difficult. If you have a vise, use some cardboard or a rag to protect the shaft and hold it in the vise. Otherwise, a pair of vise grips works pretty well.

Mike

milne

Hi Mike, thanks for your reply, 
   Yes I search the forum and found a post by AT on using that trick. Tried it without the vice and didn't work, so it's soaking again for a few days
Then I'll take it to the factory and clamp the spool carefully between two pieces of wood and try again. I have means there of applying some heat there as well.
  It really is well and truly corroded in there and was starting to test my patience !!
So into some more penetrating oil it goes.

Thanks Mike

Col

foakes

#9
Hi Col —

Not trying to change your removal process, too much.

But looking ahead, the question to be answered — might be...OK, the gear is off, and cleaned up as best as can be for an old rusted pinion — how will it operate on the reel?

Likely much better — but never perfect.

So, if you want — just get the rusted pinion off however you can by cutting open the side carefully with a Dremel cutting disc — then a pair of pliers or vice grips to just pinch off what is left.

Clean up the spool shaft really well — and install a new pinion.

I can send out a new one (old stock 13-155), if you wish — it could go in Monday's Mail.

N/C.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

milne

Hi Fred,
           Thank you for your kind offer. This reel is a very early one (39) and will just sit on the shelf, so my end aim is to clean it up as best as possible
    kill all the corrosion and re assemble, get it working as best as possible and put on the shelf.
  But that was a very generous offer all the same Fred and was I to fish with this reel, I would jump at your offer.
  I managed to have another go at removing it, with the 2 screw driver method, and actually managed to get it moved about a 1/4 of an inch up, then, it simply wouldn't slide up any more. So its back into some more penetrating oil for another soak until I get to the workshop with a vice.
I've been very lucky with the Pre war reels I have obtained so far, all of them were relatively corrosion free inside and have only needed a clean up and re grease, so I have been learning practically on the run with each reel strip down,  I can even almost name most parts now   ;D , so this has been my first real hiccup.

Thanks again for your kind offer all the same Fred.

regards
Col
 
   

Tiddlerbasher

After the soaking try hitting it the pinion only with some heat - I use one of the little micro torches (chef type). Heat can sometimes free things when all else fails.

milne

Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on April 27, 2019, 08:24:01 AM
After the soaking try hitting it the pinion only with some heat - I use one of the little micro torches (chef type). Heat can sometimes free things when all else fails.

Yes, exactly what I was going to attempt.
    I'll prop it in a vice appropriately, give it a slight touch up with some heat and i have a couple of larger bladed slotted screw drivers at the factory I shall carefully try and ease the pinion up.
   THIS LITTLE PRE WAR 180, WILL NOT BEAT ME   
  Worse case scenario, i shall have a nice late 30's green handle for the for sale section !!!!
              ;D

Col

foakes

I understand and respect your process, Col —

If you end up needing this pinion after all — the offer is always open.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

Alto Mare

Col, it is always nice being able to repair a reel, but at times it is better to step away and this might be the case here. If you keep fighting it you might ruin the spool shaft as well.
I'm going to recommend you get a nice size vise grip and snap that pinion in two.
Fred or anyone else here could send you a replacement, yes me included.

Best,
Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.