9/0 Senator drag/handle parts order of installation?

Started by Recoil Rob, May 16, 2019, 01:53:30 AM

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Recoil Rob

First attachment is  the original schematic....notice the pressure plate goes through the felt and the only part of the plate that contacts the first steel drag washer is the inner ring, transferring all the force, like this drawing I made labeled "Original".

It makes more sense to me to do it like the second drawing labeled "My Way", giving the pressure plate full contact with the first full drag washer. The only problem is there is nothing on top of the felt washer, it's open to the elements.

Is that correct or should there be something protecting the felt?
My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income.
   - Errol Flynn

RowdyW

Your way the collar is pressing on the felt washer only in the center. The original way the stepped washer is pressing all the way across the felt washer evenly. That way the collar can put pressure on the top keyed washer without smashing the felt washer flat. If the felt washer is squeezed flat it loses it's purpose as a means to inhibit water entry.

Recoil Rob

#2
My way the felt washer simply sits around the pressure plate, nothing contacts it.

My drawing is not to scale, I show the felt washer as thinner than the gap between the pressure plate and first steel washer. Is the felt washer thick enough to transfer force from the pressure plate to the first steel washer? Is it supposed to provide some sort of cushioning or dampening effect?

My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income.
   - Errol Flynn

Recoil Rob

I was thinking the felt washer would compress and the only point of contact would be between the pressure plate ridge and first steel washer (yellow arrow).




My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income.
   - Errol Flynn

Tightlines667

#4
The older reels with externally accessable drag stack had the felt washer down with a heavy wavy washer under it then the drag stack, no wavy washer between the star and the collar/cap and no stand alone collar... so drag stack, heavy wavy washer, felt washer, collar/cap then handle.  I like to wet the felt washer in corrosion X, it helps to keep water out, but doesn't actually transfer any force.

According to the schematic, you should move your 8-114 to where your yellow arrow is, and toss the collar (9-114).  Because these reels origionally has thicker asbestos drag washers, you may need to ad another fitted metal drag washer to the top of the stack to take up extra space when converting to the newer CF washers.

John
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

RowdyW

That way there is only slight pressure on the felt washer. The felt washer is either greased or oiled. I grease mine if I use them with a liberal coat of grease. It doesn't waterproof the reel it just helps to keep some of the spray from entering the reel & contaminating the drags. As Sal said on another post get rid of the washer & felt & replace it with a top hat from an early 114H. They are getting hard to find seperate because they are usually kept with the early right plate as a set. The later plates don't have outside accessable drags. They have a smaller opening and just use a collar.

Recoil Rob

Ya know, I realize these reels have been around for ages and are a workhorse, but every time I look I get a different recommendation to set up the drag column.

If I put the 8-115 heavy, wavy washer where the yellow arrow is the force is only being transferred to the inner edge of the drag stack.
My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income.
   - Errol Flynn

Recoil Rob

But if I flip the pressure plate it transfers force evenly over the width of the drag stack...

My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income.
   - Errol Flynn

Recoil Rob

#8
Here's another drawing, is the felt washer thick enough to transfer force?

And which one of the parts is a top hat washer? The  pressure plate (green) is the only one that remotely looks like a hat.

My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income.
   - Errol Flynn

Gfish

Good detailed thread. Thanks for posting about this.
Maybe you could try'n think like a Penn engineer. From the star down to main gear, which arrangement will produce high drag numbers, relatively smooth drag and not damage any parts. After that comes the fun part: TESTING various arrangements.
Like Sal, I don't like the convex bellivele---it does increase drag adjustibility, but adds some kinda uneven friction 'er somethin. Then again, maybe I didn't do the arrangement right when testing? I recall that I hada write down arrangements and drag numbers at various settings to keep it all straight....
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

alantani

i always installed the drag stack in the original configuration.  the though was that the oiled felt would keep water out.  with greased carbon fiber drags, it no longer matters.  still, i would keep the original configuration. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Recoil Rob

#11
Thanks Alan, can you confirm which of the drawings is the original configuration? I'm not sure, the drawing I posted as original is from memory.
My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income.
   - Errol Flynn

alantani

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

UKChris1

My understanding is that the heavy metal washer at the top of the drag stack and immediately below the combination of collars, felt washers etc. transfers all the pressure across the underlying drag components (which is why it is heavy and will not flex or deform under normal loading).

Thus having the felt washer and its holder reversed doesn't offer any advantage that I can see and yet loses the water barrier benefit.

But, always worth reflecting on whether there are improvements to be made, which is the theme here; thanks for making me think!

Cheers,
Chris

Alto Mare

#14
I have done a few of these upgrades and I'm actually still doing some.
Here is what has work out the best for me after testing a few other options .
Not showing it here,  but this is the same concept when using custom inserts.
I still have a couple of Lee's inserts and of course Adam's. Both will bring it up another notch.



Top layout is original....

Newell Nut caught an 8' Shark with one I just did for him last week, he said it took very little effort.

The Delrin washer for under the main gear and the one on top really help this reel, along with replacing the felt and metal washer with the  top-hat.
Sorry, couldn't find the part # for that top-hat washer, I think  it's something like 22?...

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.