Is it ok to dunk reel in freshwater

[Bryan Young]

I still dunk or swamp my reels in fresh water with the drags tight.  Note that all of my reels are pre-serviced.  After dunking/swamping the reels, I spin and shake my reels so that most of the water is out of the reel and bearings.  If I dunk them in a bucket, then I repeat it a few times in a fresh bucket of water as I don't want any salt brine in the water. 

[alantani]

my reels are also pre-serviced, so i can run them under water from a sink to rinse them off.  then i will dry them and, if i have time, spray them with a little corrosion x and wipe them down again. 

[Dominick]

I service my reels each season.  So when I get back from fishing I take the rod and reel in the shower.  I tighten the drags first then loosen and put over the heater vent or in the sun.  The reels with drain holes are pointed up to let the water vapor out.  When I service them I don't see any adverse effects from this procedure.  I suppose all the procedures mentioned will work.  I just go for easy.  Dominick

[Fishy247]

I've been spraying some salt away on my reels and then rinsing them thoroughly with the hose or in the sink. Whenever I do get around to opening them up, the insides all appear good to go. The outsides, though, seem to get much cleaner after. Dang things darn near sparkle!

[jurelometer]

Several threads on this topic.    I think  it boils down to understanding what  materials you are working with, and what you you are trying to prevent.

1. In reels designed to be used in saltwater, all the components are typically highly resistant to freshwater corrosion, but some of the components are not highly resistant to chlorides.  Dissimilar metals  in contact in a chloride solution creates the equivalent of a battery-  leading to galvanic corrosion of the less noble metal (typically aluminum in these scenarios.  Galvanic corrosion is the nightmare scenario where significant corrosion happens the fastest. keeping moisture out (hard to do -marine air is pretty humid), or providing a barrier between the dissimilar metals (like grease, or products designed to prevent galvanic corrosion) is the ticket to minimizing galvanic corrosion.  a single metal can still corrode in saltwater, but usually not as quickly as the galvanic corrosion situation.

2.  Saltwater is a chloride solution.  Swimming pool water is also (to a varying degree - depends on the pool).  Tap water is usually OK.  

3.  Ball bearings and one-way bearings are almost always made with a 400 series stainless steel alloy containing carbon (carbon allows the alloy to be hardened).   These alloys are reasonably freshwater corrosion resistant, but much less resistant to saltwater/chloride corrosion.

4.  Fresh water is a very good solvent for salt.   Combining fresh with salt water dilutes the salt content very quickly.  Water temperature does not change the solvency of salt [clarification-water temperature does not significantly change the amount of salt (NaCl)  that can be dissolved, but warmer water will dissolve salt crystals a bit faster].   Adding soap does not improve the salt solvency (but is more likely to degrade the grease  and other lubricants).

5.  A far as I can tell,   "salt-away" type products do not increase the salt solvency of the water it is mixed with.  What these products appear to do is increase the surface tension of water beads, so the water "sheets" and stays in contact with vertical surface longer, giving the water more time to dissolve salt crystals.  At least some of the products leave a coating behind that also works as a barrier to salt corrosion.  (if there is an expert on this stuff out there, feel free to correct me).

6.  So called "sealed" reels that are sort of "waterproof" might not benefit from a soak, as the extended immersion might let water into the sealed area, where it would not wash out. The freshwater dissolving action works by the contact of moving molecules, and the fresh water will either be excluded, or will slowly seep in and become trapped.  

7.  Soaking is not a replacement for routine maintenance. A pre-service adding a light coating of grease on internal metal surfaces and screw holes prevents salt from getting a foothold.  Once pitting starts, salt crystals become more "embedded" and will be more difficult to dissolve in fresh water.

In summary,  soaking in fresh water is a good way to dissolve and remove salts from a reel with the possible exception of "sealed" reels .  A reel that uses components that cannot get wet is already useless, and I don't think that many exist. Salt is what we need to worry about, not water.    Soap will not help dissolve salt, but could degrade lubricants.  Also warm soapy water may carry dissolved lubricants where you don't want them. Ensuring that the reel dries out after soaking  means that any salt left behind will be in crystals, which is less corrosive than in solution.  Less moisture will usually help lubricants last longer.   Routine maintenance, especially a pre-service before the reel is ever used, ensures that vulnerable parts have a protective barrier.

I soak my reels for 20-30 minutes at least weekly when using them daily.  If there is a half teaspoon of saltwater in my reel,  a gallon of fresh water will dilute by 1/1500 - no need to change the water and re-dunk.  Full breakdown and re-lube once a year.  Works for me.   It is tough to soak the salt out of braid.   Still working on that.

And lots of folks here disagree with me on this topic.  I do my best to keep an open mind

-J

[Leerie18]

Very interesting rationale that you have presented above - thank you Jurelometer.

As I read, the 20-30min weekly dunking is a strategy to deal with salt in the reel, and an annual breakdown once a year works out fine for you.
Over time, do you not get displaced lubricant or a sticky drag?


"...it boils down to understanding what  materials you are working with, and what you you are trying to prevent".
"Soaking is not a replacement for routine maintenance".

I would love to find a similar solution that works for our application. A full breakdown after every 2 - 3 sessions is a requirement! Heavy reel use (multipliers), together with all pervasive salt (especially when using braid that has lost its "slick" coating and carries water) - to the point that on a hot and windy day, the salt  is visibly apparrent, encrusted on the rod guides. Our heavy use requires proper lubrication, hence my question.

I don't mind the maintenance so much, nothing like starting a session with the smell and feel of a prepped and tuned reel. Of the worries in my life, reel failure when on and properly tight with a fish is right up there!

[jurelometer]

Very interesting rationale that you have presented above - thank you Jurelometer.

As I read, the 20-30min weekly dunking is a strategy to deal with salt in the reel, and an annual breakdown once a year works out fine for you.
Over time, do you not get displaced lubricant or a sticky drag?


"...it boils down to understanding what  materials you are working with, and what you you are trying to prevent".
"Soaking is not a replacement for routine maintenance".

I would love to find a similar solution that works for our application. A full breakdown after every 2 - 3 sessions is a requirement! Heavy reel use (multipliers), together with all pervasive salt (especially when using braid that has lost its "slick" coating and carries water) - to the point that on a hot and windy day, the salt  is visibly apparrent, encrusted on the rod guides. Our heavy use requires proper lubrication, hence my question.

I don't mind the maintenance so much, nothing like starting a session with the smell and feel of a prepped and tuned reel. Of the worries in my life, reel failure when on and properly tight with a fish is right up there!

Soaking in room temperature tap water should not displace marine grease. 

Carbon fiber washers are pretty absorbent in their original state.  Whatever gets on the washers first will probably stick to it.   If the stuff ends up creating a larger difference between static and dynamic coefficients of friction, you end up with a more sticky drag.   This is why the majority of reel repair experts here recommend a drag grease (not just any grease) on carbon fiber washers.   Once coated, it is much harder to contaminate with something else,  and the difference between static and dynamic coefficient of friction with drag grease is less than dry washers.  Cal's Universal and Shimano drag grease are popular.   I only have experience with Cal's.

The downside to greased drag washers is that greater clamping pressure is required to achieve the same drag setting, and the coefficient of friction can decrease as the drag heats up (drag gets lighter).  This is why a few holdout manufacturers still don't like lubed drags.  but the rest of us think that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

The risk for salt in the braid is primarily spool corrosion. 

If properly serviced, you shouldn't have to take the reel apart after every couple of sessions for maintenance unless sand is getting into the reel, or you are using very light oil on the bearings to improve casting distance with lighter weights.  Marine grease is your friend.  It stay tends to stay where it is put, and provides a protective barrier to corrosion.  Grease should go everywhere you can get away with it, which usually means everything but levelwind mechanisms and possibly spool ball bearings involved in casting.  I grease my spool ball bearings as well.   A slight drop in casting distance on my reels doesn't bother me much.

If your reel has a fiber filled nylon frame (AKA "graphite"),  taking it apart frequently will weaken the female threads in the nylon.    Self tapping or thread forming screws for plastics are used, and these type of threaded connections are not designed for frequent re-assembly.  You don't want to take these type of reels apart on a regular basis if it can be avoided.

Hope this helps,

-J

[Newell Nut]

Fresh water is your friend what ever your method may be. Works great for me for many years.

Dwight

[SoCalAngler]

my reels are also pre-serviced, so i can run them under water from a sink to rinse them off.  then i will dry them and, if i have time, spray them with a little corrosion x and wipe them down again.  

IMO we have the best rational here.

Swim with your reels, I bet chlorine is great, a bucket wash is a no brainier I'm sure, force salt deeper into a reel than it has it ever has been before. All of this sounds like the right move to me. Just think about what you are doing before you actually do it.

I'm sure several things will be fine, BUT it is your reel so how do you want to take care of it?


And yes the dragged commit way was a pun...good catch bhale1

[MarkT]

Newell's goal was a corrosion proof reel (he never got there) and recommended dunking them in a bucket of water. Avet seems to be following along that same line. Keep in mind that Avet is still not greasing their drags so take their advice with a large grain of salt!  If dunking lubricated devices exposed to salt water is a good idea then you should drive your car into a swimming pool if exposed to salt on the roads in the winter.  Bad idea? Yeah, that's what I thought for reels too!

[Keta]

The greases we use are very water resistant and soaking in fresh water has little to no effect on them, driving your car into the water is foolish. 
High pressure spray forces salt into a reel, especially a loose tolerance reel like Avets.  Gental misting is far better.
Soaking desolves or dilutes the salt and it flushes out.  If soaking a reel is so bad my  close to 20 year old Avets would be scrap metal.   Note, my drags are all greased.

[MarkT]

Maybe a fully pre-fished cleaning/lubed reel as suggested here would be dunkable.  I doubt an out of the box reel from the factory is in any condition to be dunked. But if you want to dunk then dunk... it's your reel but I won't be following your lead.

[Keta]

Like I said, close to 20 years soaking, not dunking, on my Avets and they still fish.   They might melt the next time.  It's far worse to blast them with high pressure forcing salt into them.

[mrwilson99]

I rinse all my reels with warm water (not hot) after every trip. Never had any issues and my reels are maintained 2-3 times during the season.

[jurelometer]

I just realized that I was being imprecise in using dunk (possibly just a quick dip) and soak (immersed for at least several minutes)  interchangeably.   I am a proponent of soaking.  Maybe dunking might be an option for "sealed" reels, but I don't intend to own any.   Sorry for any confusion.

My reply to comments from various folks:

If dunking lubricated devices exposed to salt water is a good idea then you should drive your car into a swimming pool if exposed to salt on the roads in the winter.

I wouldn't soak a reel if it had an unsealed electrical system, an internal combustion engine, a gasoline tank with an air vent, upholstery, etc.    But last time I checked, none of my reels was also a car 

The reels with drain holes are pointed up to let the water vapor out.

Might be better to leave the drain holes down.   Anything that drips out can carry salt.  Evaporation leaves behind accumulated salt crystals, all concentrated  at the lowest point. 

Maybe a fully pre-fished cleaning/lubed reel as suggested here would be dunkable.  I doubt an out of the box reel from the factory is in any condition to be dunked. But if you want to dunk then dunk... it's your reel but I won't be following your lead.

Agree that if you have a method that you are satisfied with, best to stick with it.  Real world results are a compelling argument.   And I understand that some folks are repelled by the very idea of soaking even though they run many of the same materials through their dishwashers

I am still looking for a technical reason why freshwater soaking is a bad idea. As far as I can tell,  it sounds like the best anti-soaking argument is based on the idea that freshwater will dissolve the salt, and carry the dissolved salt to other parts of the reel that were not compromised.

Once salt crystals dissolve into solution, the levels of salinity across the solution equalizes immediately (for our purposes). A teaspoon of salt water diluted into a 5 gallon bucket of freshwater means a reduction of about 1/3750(0.00027 - a 99.97 percent reduction in salinity).   

For this anti-soaking argument to be correct, a small amount of fresh water has to get separated from the rest of the bucket, pick up some salt inside the reel and then carry it to another part of the reel that  is also isolated from the rest of the water.

It is possible that certain reel designs might be more vulnerable to this scenario (e.g. "sealed" spinning and fly reels).  But I would argue that this situation is more likely to occur in most reels by spraying water on the reel or showering with it (with or without scented candles ), as you are introducing only a small amount of freshwater to dilute with but still risking salt migration inside the reel. 

It sounds like there is general agreement that a hard spray can be the most damaging scenario.


-J