Swapping main gears from a Saltist 40T into a Sealine X40SHV

[Petah]

So, I was servicing my Daiwa's when I realized that the main gears in a Saltist 40T and a Sealine X40SHV are almost the same.
The only difference being the Saltist gear is slightly taller to accomodate the 5 stack drag stack whereas the Sealine only has a 3 stack.
I managed to configure a "custom" top washer, spacer and bearing washer but I had to remove one of the bellvilles to end up with just a slight start up drag. The original pinion gear mates up perfectly and retains the 4.9:1 retrieve. Before I post any pictures I would like some feedback on if the graphite frame of the Sealine will be able to handle the
added drag. If anything it would give a way smoother drag at stock higher drag settings IMO. Let me know if you think it's worth it or should I scrap the idea!!!! Thanks in advance!!!!!

Peter

[Porthos]

Max drag on that 3-stack is, what, 15-18 lbs? So with a 5-stack, it's up to 20-25lbs?

Assuming 1-2 lbs drag from the rod and guides under load and going with the 1/3 rule, a 40lb setup will need 12lbs drag from top of spool, 50lb will need 15lbs, and 60lb will need 18lbs. For 1/4 rule, 9lbs, 11lbs, and 13lbs respectively. 18lbs max drag on a graphite frame is probably still short of the 20-25lbs that is most likely in the high risk of frame-failure realm, but there will probably be observable frame flexing in a sustained fight. YMMV.

15lbs drag is the threshold I'd push a graphite frame with no top bar; 18lbs for one that does (which my Okuma SD55L has, and I have used up to 18lbs drag in the past...in a pinch). My designated 60lb setup is a Daiwa 400H...full metal frame.

IMHO, the smoother drag at stock drag settings is your best bet as you said yourself. Whether it is worth it is your personal preference. This is the website for those that will pour $$$ into "franken-," "magnum," and "tank" reels...we may be the wrong audience to ask.  

[Cor]

The Sealine X40SHV you are referring to, has the free floating pinion.  It surprises me that the main gear fits as it's a different system and my experience with these reels is that the main and pinion gear wear out  quicker then other similar reels.   Would love to see the photos, even if it doesn not work out!

As to whether the body of the reel will hold the stronger drag.   I think it will, considering that my friend and I have caught some large Yellowfin on those reels.    We regularly use them for yellowtail and I fish with a virtually locked drag on those.   I have never seen one of these or the similar Daiwa's break a frame.

You may improve the drag significantly, but you won't turn it in to a 50lb reel!

I would certainly attempt the modification, is worth a try.   If it breaks we will then know that and it's not the most expensive reel.
 

[nelz]

my experience with these reels is that the main and pinion wear out quicker then other similar reels.

Which reel are you saying has this gear wear issue, the Saltist or the Sealine X40SHV?

[Cor]

my experience with these reels is that the main and pinion wear out quicker then other similar reels.

Which reel are you saying has this gear wear issue, the Saltist or the Sealine X40SHV?

Sealine X40SHV.

The reel starts grind, or "rumble" much sooner than the other Daiwas that have brass on brass gears.

[nelz]

Ah, good to know. Probably due to frame flex.

[Cor]

Ah, good to know. Probably due to frame flex.

This is something I have always wondered about and I decided it was most likely because of some play or slight misalignment of the pinion with the main gear because of the way the pinion is fitted, or because of the two different metals, Stainless steel pinion on brass main gear.

It is probably not a major shortcoming in the reel, but most likely bothers people like myself who cast and retrieve a lure for hours on end, more then others.
As it is caused by this constant retrieving, I have some reservations about your theory.   When retrieving a lure through the water there is limited pull on the reel, probably not enough to flex the frame.

When comparing the gear wear my comparisons are mainly other graphite framed reels which may in theory also have frame flex.   The Shimano 20/40 or Speed Master type reels have Stainless steel gears and they suffer from this problem far less then the Daiwa SL50SH which has brass on brass.

This been said, I have no doubt that it is true that the X40SHV has faster gear wear, through having used these graphite reels exclusively for a long time and many hours, as well as servicing them.   But I can not prove it either.

A FINAL OBSERVATION:
I have for the first time started to use reels with much finer teeth, Tranx 500HG.    One of them I've used nearly exclusively for 5 seasons.   This reel is only now beginning to show slight gear wear.   I had expected that these gears would wear faster than those with less teeth, probably not so.

I now fish quite a lot less then I did in the past, but have taken that in to account.

Perhaps there are some on this site who have more scientific or engineering type explanations for this.

[Petah]

    
Re: Swapping main gears from a Saltist 40T into a Sealine X40SHV
« Reply #1 on: Today at 03:24:12 AM »
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Max drag on that 3-stack is, what, 15-18 lbs? So with a 5-stack, it's up to 20-25lbs?

Assuming 1-2 lbs drag from the rod and guides under load and going with the 1/3 rule, a 40lb setup will need 12lbs drag from top of spool, 50lb will need 15lbs, and 60lb will need 18lbs. For 1/4 rule, 9lbs, 11lbs, and 13lbs respectively. 18lbs max drag on a graphite frame is probably still short of the 20-25lbs that is most likely in the high risk of frame-failure realm, but there will probably be observable frame flexing in a sustained fight. YMMV.

15lbs drag is the threshold I'd push a graphite frame with no top bar; 18lbs for one that does (which my Okuma SD55L has, and I have used up to 18lbs drag in the past...in a pinch). My designated 60lb setup is a Daiwa 400H...full metal frame.

IMHO, the smoother drag at stock drag settings is your best bet as you said yourself. Whether it is worth it is your personal preference.
This is the website for those that will pour $$$ into "franken-," "magnum," and "tank" reels...we may be the wrong audience to ask.  

Porthos,

I respect your opinion but the last part of your reply is a bit condescending!!! I have been a part of this site for awhile and have indeed poured lots of $$$$'s into my $300 - $500 Jigmasters. I just threw out an idea and wanted honest opinions not to be questioned on how much money I spend on my customizations. Hell. I've spent ridiculous amounts on Baymasters just because I wanted to!!!

[Petah]

Okay, here's some comparison pics. The left side is the Sealine and the right side is the Saltist.

[Petah]

This is what I came up with to start. There's definitely a better way to do this but I just wanted to see if it
would work. With some fine tuning I'm sure I can make it look stock and only the discerning eye would be able to tell. maybe!!!
The reel functions normally but has just a little start-up drag. The star adjusts very smoothly with just one finger to full lock. Probably due to the delrin washers under the main and on top of the drag stack.  The Saltist 30T-40-50 share the same internals. The Sealine X40SHV-50SHV
share the same internals. I like the A/R dog on the Sealines much better than the Saltist. I used to fish 50# on a 50SHV so with a more narrow 40SHV and spectra I think that this will be ok for 50-60# top shots.

[Cor]

My concern was whether the pinion setup would work as it is very different, but am sure you've considered that.    I once fitted a thicker drag stack to an X40SHV, but can't remember what or how I did.  I did have to grind a tiny bit off the side plate.

I just compared the gears from a X40SHV and a SL50SH the latter is 0.013mm thicker, looks very similar to your 40T.

I was going to look at this in more detail by stripping down two reels like you've done, but checking the desk full of bits and pieces in your photo has put me off completely, too much work for now!

[Cor]

That looks great! Nice one.  Something I may try sometime again.  
I remember what I did a long time back worked, but not entirely satisfactory.

[Porthos]

I respect your opinion but the last part of your reply is a bit condescending!!! I have been a part of this site for awhile and have indeed poured lots of $$$$'s into my $300 - $500 Jigmasters. I just threw out an idea and wanted honest opinions not to be questioned on how much money I spend on my customizations. Hell. I've spent ridiculous amounts on Baymasters just because I wanted to!!!

Peter,

FULLY guilty here myself of pouring $200+ in parts and part reels into experimenting on a Penn 27 to turn it from a 15lb reel to a 40lb one. So laughing at myself at my own expense...wait...what?...how does that work??? 

Wai

[nelz]

As it is caused by this constant retrieving, I have some reservations about your theory.  When retrieving a lure through the water there is limited pull on the reel, probably not enough to flex the frame.

Agreed, but do you catch any fish? Big ones that is.  

Also, now that I've seen how thin that main is, not surprising it doesn't hold up.

[Cor]

As it is caused by this constant retrieving, I have some reservations about your theory.  When retrieving a lure through the water there is limited pull on the reel, probably not enough to flex the frame.

Agreed, but do you catch any fish? Big ones that is.  

Also, now that I've seen how thin that main is, not surprising it doesn't hold up.

Definition of big?

I mainly catch Yellowtail from shore which puts a lot of stress on the equipment.    To pull those fish through kelp or other structures, we pull as hard as is possible on 45 lb line and with a nearly locked drag and strong 10 ft rod.
Let's say I catch 22 fish per month, that means the reel is pulling hard for 4 minutes per fish and therefore 1 hour and 28 minutes per month.  Let's say this is when the frame flexis.   However we don't wind (or crank) the fish in, it get pumped, so in theory most stress is off the reel when you retrieve line.

In contrast I cast and retrieve ave. 4 days per week and make say 400 casts of say 90 yds. per day.
You can calculate how many miles of line I retrieve in a season of 6 month.

The narrow main gear is most probably a factor, one that i've not really considered, but it is certainly narrower then any of the comparison reels.   So perhaps this may be another good reason to replace the main gear?