alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Something I noticed with Bearings
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
September 15, 2019, 04:14:28 AM *
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Author Topic: Something I noticed with Bearings  (Read 457 times)
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TheReelShop
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« on: June 22, 2019, 07:28:59 PM »

its already happened several times.

Ive literally done this with new bearings. When I get one and test it as is or add oil to it, you can feel the glide/smoothness.

When I grease it specifically with Yama-Lube because that what I us for grease, you can feel the bearing when you turn it.

I have two new Penn SSVI's. I serviced one completely. The lack of smoothness on the greased bearings is noticeable as well as the noise. The bearings PENN uses for this reel are Chinese/Taiwan made.

despite this I think the reel is better protected long term but really curious as to what happens to the bearing when it gets greased.
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farnorthlbg
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2019, 12:58:38 PM »

It could be a combination of a couple of things.  When you pack bearings with grease, there's always going to be surplus even on the rolling elements, until the bearing pushes it out over a period of time.  As the balls roll they grease starts to accumulate in front of the ball, it will get to a certain threshold and the grease build up will 'channel' or squeeze past the ball, cage and the inner and outer race.  This can be identified by what feels like a small 'bump'.

Also, if you have a look at the technical data sheet and MSDS of Yamalube and allot of other greases, you'll see that it's texture is stated 'buttery and grainy'.  These greases aren't buttery smooth like many OEM or boutique greases
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Donnyboat
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2019, 03:18:18 PM »

Grease is a lot thicker than, say, oil, corrosion X, so the bearing will revolve much slower with grease, depending on the area temperature, you can thin the grease with corrosion x oil, I dont believe yamaha grease is compatible, with TSI 321, just my opinion, the bearing will last a lot longer with Yam Grease though, cheers Don.
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Don, or donnyboat
TheReelShop
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2019, 07:11:53 PM »

It could be a combination of a couple of things.  When you pack bearings with grease, there's always going to be surplus even on the rolling elements, until the bearing pushes it out over a period of time.  As the balls roll they grease starts to accumulate in front of the ball, it will get to a certain threshold and the grease build up will 'channel' or squeeze past the ball, cage and the inner and outer race.  This can be identified by what feels like a small 'bump'.

Also, if you have a look at the technical data sheet and MSDS of Yamalube and allot of other greases, you'll see that it's texture is stated 'buttery and grainy'.  These greases aren't buttery smooth like many OEM or boutique greases

That pretty much answered my question and thank you for that.


Grease is a lot thicker than, say, oil, corrosion X, so the bearing will revolve much slower with grease, depending on the area temperature, you can thin the grease with corrosion x oil, I dont believe yamaha grease is compatible, with TSI 321, just my opinion, the bearing will last a lot longer with Yam Grease though, cheers Don.



Correct, and I tend to use it accordingly. Conventional's I use grease on bearings other than spool which I oil with TSI321, and spinning reels I grease all.

I have not tried mixing with X oil, not 321, I did try with CRC 6-56 but that was a no go. The CRC is an excellent lubricant although it does a real good job at removing grease. I agree that Yam will aid in a loner duration of function.
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TheReelShop
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2019, 06:50:27 AM »

I had to bring this back up. Ive done some research and the corrosion X grease which its base is calcium complex and has a buttery smooth texture to it makes the bearings raspy.

I bought 5 new Shimano pinion bearings. Out of the packaging they glide you don't feel a thing. when I remove the covers of course theres little grease. I grease it with Corrosion X Grease and immediately you can feel the raspiness. put it on the reel and you can hear the reel. This is with a brand new bearing.

Then I grab another bearing untouched, install it and no noise.

Is this just me or can this be the consensus. People bring me reels because of the noise to begin with and to put a new one in with grease for added protection to then remain the same is not ideal to some degree. I'm stumped

Now I wonder if the greased bearings are garbage.
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wfjord
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2019, 07:43:55 AM »

I've been using TSI321 in most bearings with no problems, but on one reel the TSI seemed to make the bearing more noisy.  So after cleaning it in solvent again I lubed the bearing with a soft mixture of Yamaha blue grease and CorrosionX and it eliminated the noise.
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Gfish
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2019, 07:45:34 AM »

"What'er ya gonna do?"...Grease protects better, but while oil runs smother, it doesn't last cause of water displacement. Customers with reels that have oiled pinion ball bearings aren't gonna want to hav'ta have them serviced after every trip.
I oil mine, then cover with marine grease. The grease will work it's way in there though. Also, I'd rather take mine apart for lube service in my "down time" than watch tv( I like to listen to podcasts), so I don't have many ball bearing problems.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 02:21:42 PM by Gfish » Logged

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foakes
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2019, 07:53:53 AM »

Over the last 40+ years of reel mechanic-ing -- I have tried dozens of lubricants and various combinations and mixes.

Always been looking for that silver bullet that does the best job of lubrication, protection, and smoothness.

Sometimes solutions are simple -- many times a lot of what we were "sold" -- needs to be tossed out.

My approach on new reels and bearings when doing a pre-fish prep -- is the same as restoring old bearings in a restore job --

Shields removed --

Even if new, the bearings are soaked and fully evacuated of factory grease by using lacquer thinner and an ultrasonic cleaner -- OPEN JAR, NO HEAT ON THE US CLEANER.

Then rinse in hot water, dry as much as possible with a paper towel -- not an air compressor.

Drop the bearings in a pimento jar of WRL191S oil for 15-20 minutes while working on the rest of the reel.

Then remove the bearings -- tamp dry with a paper towel -- and add Cal's Purple grease (the purple grease is thinner for cold climates) -- so I figured it would also be good for bearings -- and it mixes perfectly with the WRL191S -- stays in place, never gets hard in storage -- and is smooth operating.

WRL191S is used in very critical industrial applications ranging from sea rigging, to cranes in cold weather, to NASA, railroads, saltwater applications, mining, and any heavy equipment in challenging conditions.

It flat out works -- and is not expensive.

This has been a successful procedure of mine for over 10 years now.

Best,

Fred


Wire Rope Lubricator

The use of lubricant on a steel wire rope considerably reduces friction and, as a result, it minimizes the following two related factors:

Abrasion on the wire rope
Heat generation
 

Benefits of Wire Rope Lubrication
The life cycle of a steel wire rope that has been periodically lubricated is approximately six to eight times longer than a wire rope that has not been lubricated.

Lubricating a wire rope while in service helps to prevent corrosion of the wires. Corrosion can be internal and external, and it often is caused by acids, alkaline waters, salt air, humidity, fumes, and abrasive and industrial environments, in general.



Advantages:

Fast and efficient – reduces lubrication time by up to 90% vs. manual lubrication
Increase operator safety
Easy to use with any wire rope up to 2 in. (52 mm)
Helps to prevent corrosion
Protects the wire ropes
Penetrates the wire rope core
Reduces waste and contamination
Robust design for harsh environments
Applications:

Traveling cranes
Wharf cranes
Ship cranes
Deck winches
Ship hoists
Wire ropes for ROVs (remote-operated vehicles)
Winding machines in mines
Mobile cranes
Oil and gas rigs
Chains and ropes
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 08:44:23 AM by foakes » Logged

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TheReelShop
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2019, 01:13:15 PM »

I've been using TSI321 in most bearings with no problems, but on one reel the TSI seemed to make the bearing more noisy.  So after cleaning it in solvent again I lubed the bearing with a soft mixture of Yamaha blue grease and CorrosionX and it eliminated the noise.


I have Corrosion X Oil and grease, TSI321 and the Yamaha. Unfortunately, the Yamaha was the grease that prompted me to start this thread.


Over the last 40+ years of reel mechanic-ing -- I have tried dozens of lubricants and various combinations and mixes.

Always been looking for that silver bullet that does the best job of lubrication, protection, and smoothness.

Sometimes solutions are simple -- many times a lot of what we were "sold" -- needs to be tossed out.

My approach on new reels and bearings when doing a pre-fish prep -- is the same as restoring old bearings in a restore job --

Shields removed --

Even if new, the bearings are soaked and fully evacuated of factory grease by using lacquer thinner and an ultrasonic cleaner -- OPEN JAR, NO HEAT ON THE US CLEANER.

Then rinse in hot water, dry as much as possible with a paper towel -- not an air compressor.

Drop the bearings in a pimento jar of WRL191S oil for 15-20 minutes while working on the rest of the reel.

Then remove the bearings -- tamp dry with a paper towel -- and add Cal's Purple grease (the purple grease is thinner for cold climates) -- so I figured it would also be good for bearings -- and it mixes perfectly with the WRL191S -- stays in place, never gets hard in storage -- and is smooth operating.

WRL191S is used in very critical industrial applications ranging from sea rigging, to cranes in cold weather, to NASA, railroads, saltwater applications, mining, and any heavy equipment in challenging conditions.

It flat out works -- and is not expensive.

This has been a successful procedure of mine for over 10 years now.

Best,

Fred


Wire Rope Lubricator

The use of lubricant on a steel wire rope considerably reduces friction and, as a result, it minimizes the following two related factors:

Abrasion on the wire rope
Heat generation
 

Benefits of Wire Rope Lubrication
The life cycle of a steel wire rope that has been periodically lubricated is approximately six to eight times longer than a wire rope that has not been lubricated.

Lubricating a wire rope while in service helps to prevent corrosion of the wires. Corrosion can be internal and external, and it often is caused by acids, alkaline waters, salt air, humidity, fumes, and abrasive and industrial environments, in general.



Advantages:

Fast and efficient – reduces lubrication time by up to 90% vs. manual lubrication
Increase operator safety
Easy to use with any wire rope up to 2 in. (52 mm)
Helps to prevent corrosion
Protects the wire ropes
Penetrates the wire rope core
Reduces waste and contamination
Robust design for harsh environments
Applications:

Traveling cranes
Wharf cranes
Ship cranes
Deck winches
Ship hoists
Wire ropes for ROVs (remote-operated vehicles)
Winding machines in mines
Mobile cranes
Oil and gas rigs
Chains and ropes




Thank you for that as well as the thorough explanation. I do have Cal’s Grease the tan one and I cleaned out the bearings standard with carb cleaner and then I applied the Cal’s and it improved drastically (I don’t know why it didn’t occur to me before). I am going to implement this technique of yours and see how it turns out. After experiencing just now the Cal’s tan, with the purple being lighter, and the WRL191S should be just right...



Adrian
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wfjord
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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2019, 02:34:46 PM »

I've been using TSI321 in most bearings with no problems, but on one reel the TSI seemed to make the bearing more noisy.  So after cleaning it in solvent again I lubed the bearing with a soft mixture of Yamaha blue grease and CorrosionX and it eliminated the noise.


I have Corrosion X Oil and grease, TSI321 and the Yamaha. Unfortunately, the Yamaha was the grease that prompted me to start this thread.

Only reason I mentioned it is because I didn't like the Yamaha by itself.  But when I started mixing it with CorrosionX it lost it's stiffness and handled very differently. Not thin like an oil and not stiff like grease. It's smooth and soft, stays put and seems to have good longevity. But Each to his own. I learn a huge amount from folks on this forum and pay close attention to what I read here, but sometimes experimenting until you find what works for you can pay off, too.
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TheReelShop
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2019, 05:09:17 PM »

I've been using TSI321 in most bearings with no problems, but on one reel the TSI seemed to make the bearing more noisy.  So after cleaning it in solvent again I lubed the bearing with a soft mixture of Yamaha blue grease and CorrosionX and it eliminated the noise.


I have Corrosion X Oil and grease, TSI321 and the Yamaha. Unfortunately, the Yamaha was the grease that prompted me to start this thread.

Only reason I mentioned it is because I didn't like the Yamaha by itself.  But when I started mixing it with CorrosionX it lost it's stiffness and handled very differently. Not thin like an oil and not stiff like grease. It's smooth and soft, stays put and seems to have good longevity. But Each to his own. I learn a huge amount from folks on this forum and pay close attention to what I read here, but sometimes experimenting until you find what works for you can pay off, too.


Yea I used it by itself on bearings.. Thats exactly how I noticed the problem.....I've never really mixed the corrosion X with it. Tomorrow ill give it a shot. I have this "lubricant" CRC C-56 its amazing but It doesn't lubricate haha it just removes everything. so when I mix with that it just loses all function. Kinda why I never experimented. Lets see. Thanks sir.....
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