alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Shimano Tekota 500LC spool slippage
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December 15, 2019, 03:01:18 AM *
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Author Topic: Shimano Tekota 500LC spool slippage  (Read 271 times)
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retiredandfishing
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« on: September 24, 2019, 01:32:30 PM »

Working on Shimano Tekota 500LC.  The problem on this reel is that when trolling with the clutch lever where it should be (forward position) and a fish strikes and runs, the clutch lever flies backwards, locks into the free spool position and it starts to free spool with a resulting birds nest.

It looks to me like the bottom part of the pinion gear may be worn although I don't have one to look at to compare.  The part of the pinion I am referring to is the side that locks into the spool assembly.  The notches in the pinion gear lock onto the pin that goes through the spool shaft.  The notch edges look worn and are all angled.  Not sure if this is the design of the pinion or wear on the pinion.  Question would be is the spool assembly side of the pinion's edge supposed to be perfectly squared off or are each of the 4 pieces of the pinion gear that form notches, angled (by design).  Attached is a picture of the pinion.

This reel is fished in shallow water.  often times less than 6 feet.  A dropper weight is used and contact with the bottom is made by free spooling from time to time. This keeps the spinner close to the bottom, adjustments to depths are frequent.  It is the habit of this fisherman to use the clutch lever to make minor adjustments by pushing slightly back on the clutch lever to release line.  But, the lever is only partially pushed back and not locked into the free spool position.

If it isn't the pinion gear, would anyone have any idea what might cause this problem?

Thanks, Steve
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retiredandfishing
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2019, 03:35:03 PM »

Here are a couple of pictures of the pinion gear.  One is hazy but if you look close you can see the angle.  I am thinking this may be designed that way and through wear, has worn down the edges of the notches enough to allow it to jump back out when a fish suddenly strikes, causing the spool to free spool.   But, not sure.

Steve[/img]


* pinion 1.jpg (530.26 KB, 1339x2412 - viewed 10 times.)

* Pinion 2.jpg (436.76 KB, 1839x1545 - viewed 8 times.)
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Lunker Larry
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« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2019, 02:30:02 PM »

If it was the pinion slipping it would do it in 90 degree increments. The pinion base can get worn, usually caused by engaging the spool on the cast or engaging the spool when letting line out for trolling without stopping the spool before doing so. The spool is spinning like crazy and when engaged the stainless steel spool shaft slams into the softer brass pinion. Eventually it rounds out and will begin to hop or skip under load. I see that problem a lot.
As for the clutch arm flying back. That's a new one and I have no idea what would cause that.
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whalebreath
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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2019, 05:36:57 PM »

...The pinion base can get worn, usually caused by engaging  engaging the spool when letting line out for trolling without stopping the spool before doing so. The spool is spinning like crazy and when engaged the stainless steel spool shaft slams into the softer brass pinion. Eventually it rounds out and will begin to hop or skip under load.
Thanks for that Larry I must admit  treating my Tekota poorly on occasion.
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retiredandfishing
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2019, 09:40:01 PM »

If it was the pinion slipping it would do it in 90 degree increments. The pinion base can get worn, usually caused by engaging the spool on the cast or engaging the spool when letting line out for trolling without stopping the spool before doing so. The spool is spinning like crazy and when engaged the stainless steel spool shaft slams into the softer brass pinion. Eventually it rounds out and will begin to hop or skip under load. I see that problem a lot.
As for the clutch arm flying back. That's a new one and I have no idea what would cause that.
[/quote

Thanks for the info. Bumping the the clutch to adjust for depth would possibly qualify as causing the spool shaft to slam into the softer brass pinion in that the spool is still spinning when the clutch lever is let down and the spool shaft engaged.  So that may account for the wear I see on the pinion. In addition if the lever was not fully locked back when line was let out, I would think there is a good possibility that the pinion is grating against the spool shaft while the line is being let out which may cause further wear. 

 May I ask you one more question. Is the pinion machined so that each of the 4 high points (that form the slots in base of the pinion) angled, as the pictures show, or are they supposed to be flat as quite a few other pinions are. The angles are quite pronounced.  I'm thinking it is designed that way but need confirmation.

Thank you.
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CapeFish
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2019, 11:44:08 PM »

If it was the pinion slipping it would do it in 90 degree increments. The pinion base can get worn, usually caused by engaging the spool on the cast or engaging the spool when letting line out for trolling without stopping the spool before doing so. The spool is spinning like crazy and when engaged the stainless steel spool shaft slams into the softer brass pinion. Eventually it rounds out and will begin to hop or skip under load. I see that problem a lot.
As for the clutch arm flying back. That's a new one and I have no idea what would cause that.

Will this happen on this type of pinion gear? I can imagine it happening on the Daiwa design, sorry I lack the engineering terminology to describe  it properly, but Daiwa reels, the spool shaft has a square shoulder that slots into the pinion and I can imagine the corresponding surface of the pinion wearing, but Shimano reels have the pin that engages in the slots and ones its in then it will take a lot to get it out unless it is totally worn to pot. Is it perhaps not engaging properly? The clutch mechanism is perhaps toast? I have always thought it is a really bad idea to slam your reel into gear when the spool is running. This confirms it to me.
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alantani
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2019, 08:10:01 AM »

the pinion gear looks normal......   Undecided
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Lunker Larry
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2019, 08:15:24 AM »

If it was the pinion slipping it would do it in 90 degree increments. The pinion base can get worn, usually caused by engaging the spool on the cast or engaging the spool when letting line out for trolling without stopping the spool before doing so. The spool is spinning like crazy and when engaged the stainless steel spool shaft slams into the softer brass pinion. Eventually it rounds out and will begin to hop or skip under load. I see that problem a lot.
As for the clutch arm flying back. That's a new one and I have no idea what would cause that.
[/quote

Thanks for the info. Bumping the the clutch to adjust for depth would possibly qualify as causing the spool shaft to slam into the softer brass pinion in that the spool is still spinning when the clutch lever is let down and the spool shaft engaged.  So that may account for the wear I see on the pinion. In addition if the lever was not fully locked back when line was let out, I would think there is a good possibility that the pinion is grating against the spool shaft while the line is being let out which may cause further wear. 

 May I ask you one more question. Is the pinion machined so that each of the 4 high points (that form the slots in base of the pinion) angled, as the pictures show, or are they supposed to be flat as quite a few other pinions are. The angles are quite pronounced.  I'm thinking it is designed that way but need confirmation.

Thank you.

Like Alan said. The pinion looks normal. I may have a couple worn ones around. I'll post a picture if I do.
Larry
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Lunker Larry
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2019, 08:28:49 AM »

Thought I had one from a tranx but this one from a Okuma will show you how much wear occurs. When pinions are worn like this they "hop" under load meaning it will slip out and spin 90 or 180 degrees in this case and engage again. Here's one compared to a new pinion


* pinion.jpg (4414.26 KB, 3456x4608 - viewed 9 times.)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 08:29:40 AM by Lunker Larry » Logged

You know that moment when your steak is on the grill and you can already feel your mouth watering.
Do vegans feel the same when mowing the lawn?
retiredandfishing
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2019, 09:00:41 AM »

Thanks for all the info.  I spoke with the customer after reading Larry's reply.  It seems the clutch handle is not jumping back and locking into free spool as he had indicated.  It is his wife's reel.  She said it is "hopping" out of gear when a fish strikes then re locking back in after 90 to 180 degree's of turning.  This goes along with Larry's input.  So feel confident the problem is a worn pinion gear. These reels get used a lot and typically the Chinook landed are of good size and weight.  Coupled with the way the clutch was being used I think it may be causing premature wear of the pinion gear.

Again thanks for all the input.  I know I can always count on the community here on Alan's website to offer insight into reel repair problems. 

Steve
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CapeFish
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2019, 09:46:43 AM »

Thought I had one from a tranx but this one from a Okuma will show you how much wear occurs. When pinions are worn like this they "hop" under load meaning it will slip out and spin 90 or 180 degrees in this case and engage again. Here's one compared to a new pinion
The Shimano pinion does not look like this. This is the type of pinion that will slip like you explained. See the pic of the tekota pinion it has a cross pin that goes into a slot. My take is the clutch mechanism is messed up and not engaging the pinion to the spool correctly
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Lunker Larry
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2019, 04:08:43 PM »

I've seen this on tekotas and Abu Revo Toro winch
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Do vegans feel the same when mowing the lawn?
akfish
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2019, 04:36:47 PM »

If I understand the issue, I've seen this fairly often on Penn 340s and 345s. People shift them into free spool when there is a lot of pressure on the reel. The result is that the shoulder on the spool shaft wears down just enough to let the pinion gear slip under pressure. If the pinion gear looks good, examine the spool carefully. Another possibility: If the spacer behind the left side end bearing is missing, the spool may be shifting to the left and allowing the pinion gear to slip on the spool.
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