Braid on Penn 209 levelwind?

Started by Lingwendil, October 11, 2019, 05:19:27 PM

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Lingwendil

Well, I think I may be giving in to peer pressure, and may finally try braid on a conventional reel. I have a 9' Medium Ugly Stik GX2 that sports a Piscifun Flame 5000 spinning reel, that is spooled with 40# Power Pro. It seems to work well with the softer action that Ugly Stik rods are known for, making the setup feel less "noodley" and works well for working with circle hooks or J hooks alike.

I fish with conventional reels a lot lately, and I keep hearing from nearly everyone that decides to comment on my setup, that I should use braid. I have three Penn 209's and a Mag 10 that I use primarily, and have 20# Berkley Trilene Big Game on all three. I was thinking of trying out some braid on one of them for less stretch when I have a lot of line out in the water for good solid hooksets.

I generally fish from shore or a pier, and like longer rods for most fishing. I haven't been on a boat more than twice in the last ten years. Primarily, I use the setup mentioned earlier, a Penn Mag 10 on an Ugly Stik lite Pro 7' medium graphite, or an aluminum spool 209 with carbontex drags on a 9' medium/heavy Daiwa Wilderness (with ceramic in the guides) with 20# Big Game and a fishfinder/sliding rig on both. Primarily slinging anything from 2-3 ounce weights, plus a small chunk of bait on a circle, J, or octopus hook from 2/0 to 4/0 size with around 24" of mono leader. If rigging from shore with the longer rods for sharks or rays, then I will go to a 5/0 to 8/0 octopus or circle hook on 20-30" of 60# coated stainless sevenstrand, and 6 ounces of weight and half a squid or so for bait. the 9' Ugly Stik is a nice rod, but too light for more than 3 ounces of weight and a big squid hunk... so I tend to use the 9' Daiwa for that, and have gotten acceptable distance from the 209 on it after some practice, at least enough to put my bait where I want.

I'm thinking that the 9' Daiwa rod may be the setup I would like to try braid on first, as it has ceramic guides, casts better with heavier weight, and is more likely to be used in a situation where the extra line capacity will keep me from getting spooled by a large ray. Would the 209 level wind of an older reel be up to the task of possibly abrasive braid from turbid water, or would it wear grooves in it over time? Would straight braid tied to the nub on the arbor of the aluminum spool be fine without backing of some sort? I think this would not be an issue. Should I use a mono shock leader for the last ten feet or so of the line, before tying off to my swivel and slider, or will the braid be fine on it's own? I hear horror stories about the knot (FG?) connecting mono to braid destroying level winds or guides during cast or retrieve. I will most likely use 40-50# or so Power pro, or something cheaper from kastking. Maybe I'll gamble on some of the cheap 8 strand 65# stuff on ebay  :o

Is what I hear about the "ugly tuff" one piece guides on the newer ugly stik rods being damaged/grooved by braid true, or just internet hearsay? My shark/ray spots in Redwood City/San Carlos always leave my line looking dingy, and feeling dirty, so even just mono seems to be picking up considerable particulate matter on it's way back to the spool, and I can see how over time this could rub down metal.

Lots of information and questions, sorry if it's too much  :)
Levelwind Lunatic! Cheap Bastard!

Penn and Pflueger nutjob!

Eyes out for: Pflueger Rocket, vintage 4-1 ratio or better spinning reels (especially metal-bodied and ultralight!)

mo65

Quote from: Lingwendil on October 11, 2019, 05:19:27 PM
I will most likely use 40-50# or so Power pro, or something cheaper from kastking. Maybe I'll gamble on some of the cheap 8 strand 65# stuff on ebay  :o

   I've been having good luck with this stuff...tons of it on the Bay...it's a great 8-strand line. 8)
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


oc1

Quote from: mo65 on October 11, 2019, 06:24:37 PM
Quote from: Lingwendil on October 11, 2019, 05:19:27 PM
I will most likely use 40-50# or so Power pro, or something cheaper from kastking. Maybe I'll gamble on some of the cheap 8 strand 65# stuff on ebay  :o

   I've been having good luck with this stuff...tons of it on the Bay...it's a great 8-strand line. 8)

I've used the Hercules too and have the dye on my hands and guide rings to prove it.
-steve

festus

Quote from: Lingwendil on October 11, 2019, 05:19:27 PM
Well, I think I may be giving in to peer pressure, and may finally try braid on a conventional reel. I have a 9' Medium Ugly Stik GX2 that sports a Piscifun Flame 5000 spinning reel, that is spooled with 40# Power Pro. It seems to work well with the softer action that Ugly Stik rods are known for, making the setup feel less "noodley" and works well for working with circle hooks or J hooks alike.
Can't really offer any advice on using braid on Penn conventionals, just wanted to comment on your 9' medium Ugly Stik.  I bought one of these about 10 years ago before the swapover to the GX2.  Probably very similar to your's, rated for 4 lb to 20 lb mono.  These are one of the most versatile rods I've ever seen.  With a medium spinning reel and a few spare spools they're good for crappie, white bass, hybrids, cats, stripers--you name it.  I've gone as low as 4 lb mono with ultralight Sidewinder and Kastmaster spoons and they'll cast a mile.  6, 8, 10, 12, and 15 lb mono works just as well with heavier baits.  They'll comfortably cast up to 1-1/2" striper jigs then feel awkward with anything heavier.  Bigger baits can be gently lobbed I suppose, just haven't tried yet.

mo65

Quote from: oc1 on October 11, 2019, 07:53:03 PM
I've used the Hercules too and have the dye on my hands and guide rings to prove it.
-steve

   That's why I buy mostly white.:D  I tend to get the same results on the colored stuff from Power Pro and Kastking though...for twice as much money. :'(
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


wfjord

#5
The setups I'm using on a several relatively similar sized conventionals (mag 10, 150, 140, 47H, etc.) are 50-65# PowerPro and a topshot of enough mono to cover the casting range plus some.  PP with a shorter mono or fluoro leader on a couple other reels... and a 140 Squidder loaded with dacron (Micron) and mono.

Gfish

#6
I have the Ugly Stick "Bigwater" rods. Was immediately attracted to the ugly tough guides because they were 1-piece and I've had so many ceramic inserts pop out. So far(2yrs.), I've seen no detectable wear, just build-up from a mixture of braid(P.-Pro, std. green) particals and water detritus. Maybe I should start cleaning rod guides.

The levelwinder can be an issue(hear-say only, no practical exp.). How about a close-in-size conventional like the Penn Squidder? Thanks to Mo's braid picture, I may have finally figured out that Hercules is the braid that came on my used Squidder. That's some supple-castable stuff.

Fer fishin in Bay waters, especially for shark/ray species, braid tied to wire or very short but heavy mono. leaders should be good.

Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

Lingwendil

I'm wanting to stay with a levelwind, I've not had the easiest time with doing it myself, due to issues with joint pain in my hands.   :-\

I may grab a roll of white cheaper braid soon, still not sure how I want to do for wether I'll run a topshot or not.
Levelwind Lunatic! Cheap Bastard!

Penn and Pflueger nutjob!

Eyes out for: Pflueger Rocket, vintage 4-1 ratio or better spinning reels (especially metal-bodied and ultralight!)

Gfish

#8
Yeah. You and my son. His hands are ok, but like me, he gets so excited he forgets that line control "detail" when hooked up. Last time we went out together, I spent 1/2 the trip back, pulling a ball of line out from his L.B.60.
Check-out the funny lookin, but simple and tuff level-winder on a Penn 350.

How's the Berzerkly pier these days? I remember when they did a major upgrade including lights, etc. back in the late 70's
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

Swami805

I use braid on a mag 10, I think 40lb power pro, works fine and holds alot. The only issue with the 209 might be the braid getting between the spool and sideplate.If tha gap ins't much it should be ok. It'll take some getting used to casting, goeasy at first until you get a feel for it.
Do what you can with that you have where you are

oc1

Quote from: Lingwendil on October 11, 2019, 05:19:27 PM
Would the 209 level wind of an older reel be up to the task of possibly abrasive braid from turbid water, or would it wear grooves in it over time? Would straight braid tied to the nub on the arbor of the aluminum spool be fine without backing of some sort?
.....
I will most likely use 40-50# or so Power pro, or something cheaper from kastking. Maybe I'll gamble on some of the cheap 8 strand 65# stuff on ebay  :o

The 209 is an odd size in the age of spectra.  It was intended to be fished with about 300 yards of 20# mono.  Five to seven pounds of drag would have been possible and appropriate.

You will have more like 400 yards of 50# braid.  With 50# line you might be tempted to bump it up to ten pounds of drag.  But, a 209 may not be able to generate ten pounds of drag with those little drag washers unless you really lock it down so 50# line may be a overkill. 

A fish big enough to demand 400 yards at ten pounds of drag is a really big fish.  It is a fish so big that you have to wonder if a 209 can handle it mechanically.

The braid is not going to cut the levelwind guide.  The levelwind pawl, carriage and worm will go bad and lock up before that happens. This is especially true if you  bump up the drag pressure.   The levelwind mechanism will be the weakest link.  The second weakest link may be the sleeve threads.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the 209 is not able to do anything that the smaller mag 10 or a Penn 9M can't do if you are using spectra.

No backing is needed under spectra.

-steve



Lingwendil

Quote from: Gfish on October 11, 2019, 10:14:12 PM
Check-out the funny lookin, but simple and tuff level-winder on a Penn 350.

I've got my eyes out for one, I actually really like the unique levelling system and would love to fish one  :)

QuoteHow's the Berzerkly pier these days? I remember when they did a major upgrade including lights, etc. back in the late 70's

Closed, with no news on reopening.  :( you see plenty of guys fishing near it on kayaks or small boats for halibut still.

I usually fish the Antioch pier by the bridge since its a couple miles from home, or around redwood city after work. There's a few good spots around alameda and bay farm island too, as well as foster city when the wind is bearable.
Levelwind Lunatic! Cheap Bastard!

Penn and Pflueger nutjob!

Eyes out for: Pflueger Rocket, vintage 4-1 ratio or better spinning reels (especially metal-bodied and ultralight!)

oc1

Quote from: Gfish on October 11, 2019, 10:14:12 PM
Check-out the funny lookin, but simple and tuff level-winder on a Penn 350.
The 350 Leveline is tuff OK; bullet proof and foolproof.  But, it is not very good at casting.  The Leveline cross bar sits up high so it keeps some tension on the line.  But, line rubs on that cross bar when casting so you will not get much distance.
-steve

steelfish

Quote from: mo65 on October 11, 2019, 06:24:37 PM
Quote from: Lingwendil on October 11, 2019, 05:19:27 PM
I will most likely use 40-50# or so Power pro, or something cheaper from kastking. Maybe I'll gamble on some of the cheap 8 strand 65# stuff on ebay  :o

   I've been having good luck with this stuff...tons of it on the Bay...it's a great 8-strand line. 8)


Mo, lets open a thread of B-grade braid fishing lines  ;D ;D, I use them on my shore setups but for my inshore and off-shore reels I always use a well-known brand.


back to the topic, my amigo Steve already said it, you need to use thick line to avoid getting the braid line at the sides of the spool so, a 50lb will do it specially if you get of the cheap braids cuz they are always thicker than a comparable brand in the the size, I dont see that bad, I have my abu gracia reels 5500 and 6500 full of braid with a short mono leader with the selected size for the fish 15lb, 20lb, etc, for two reason, line-shy fish and to break the line easier if I got snagged on a rock, way to hard to breack a 50# line compared to a 20# mono leader.

The Baja Guy

mo65

#14
Quote from: steelfish on October 12, 2019, 06:42:31 PM
Mo, lets open a thread of B-grade braid fishing lines  ;D ;D, I use them on my shore setups but for my inshore and off-shore reels I always use a well-known brand.
  Good one Alex! I definitely been schooled on the cheap braids...HA!
 
  I'll tell you a tip for that 209. Since you're casting and not deep dropping, you don't need all the spool's capacity...like others said. Half a spool casts easier, stays out of the side plates, and the drag power increases. How ya gonna top that? 8)
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~