alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial First Gen Penn 12/0s
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
November 16, 2019, 11:23:59 PM *
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Author Topic: First Gen Penn 12/0s  (Read 228 times)
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54bullseye
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« on: November 10, 2019, 01:06:36 PM »

Okay I bought this first reel with the box and 1937 catalog and the Penn packing paper in it. As you can see box, catalog and reel are all in really nice shape but the reel has the big top harness lugs and has the smaller front lugs with rod brace. Also it has the torpedo style knob. My question to all you Penn gurus is could this reel have been a late 1937 production reel or possibly a latter 38 reel that was put in box with 37 catalog ????? Can this package be correct ??

I also have this 1937 12/0 that I am sure would be correct for box and catalog but reel isn't as good as the one that came with it. Which one would you guys keep with the box and catalog ?         Thanks !!       John Taylor


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« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 01:08:22 PM by 54bullseye » Logged
54bullseye
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2019, 01:07:47 PM »

1937 for sure


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Crow
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2019, 01:41:45 PM »

Beautiful reels !!
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There's nothing wrong with a few "F's" on your record....Food, Fun, Flowers, Fishing, Friends, and Fun....to name just a few !
Reeltyme
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2019, 03:01:03 PM »

John, It’s really difficult to make a true assessment of the 2 reels based on the photos. I would recommend that you mail them to me and I will give you my most “professional” opinion! Grin
Reeltyme
Very nice as usual John. When can I bring my truck up and visit?
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Swami805
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2019, 07:14:53 PM »

Can help with the date but that's a beautiful package you have. Very nice
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milne
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2019, 07:22:08 PM »

Hi John, hope all is well.
    Beautiful reel and box you have there, I've been searching for a 37 lighthouse box,  very hard to come by.

OK, I'll chip in first and try and see from the following comments if I get it right.
My 37, which was out of Ray's collection,,,, and its one of the first he talks about in the " from the beginning thread".
Now, from Mike's book, he states the 37 had a major difference that separated it from all other senators, it had no front harness lugs.
But he went on to say, that because there was no photo in the brochure, there's no way of knowing whether this was standard or, whether it was just the early 37 ones were without and the later 37 ones after reviews, front lugs were added.
My one is definitely a 37, but the handle has been swapped out to a torpedo type, which was introduced in 39, which was common.
One thing you could check John, the 37 Senator, had brass gear, after 37, they went to steel gears, so crack it open and see what you have.
HTH
P.S  Maybe it's just me, but I'd be keeping both, especially if the new one has brass gears, which means you have 2 complete 37 model Senators showing the progression of the model for that year...
OR just sell the box to me   Grin

Col
« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 07:26:00 PM by milne » Logged
54bullseye
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2019, 01:28:43 AM »

John, It’s really difficult to make a true assessment of the 2 reels based on the photos. I would recommend that you mail them to me and I will give you my most “professional” opinion! Grin
Reeltyme
Very nice as usual John. When can I bring my truck up and visit?

Randy jump in your truck anytime and head up !!!  But bring along some of your jewels I am sure we can do some trading !!!      John Taylor
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54bullseye
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2019, 02:04:42 AM »

Hi John, hope all is well.
    Beautiful reel and box you have there, I've been searching for a 37 lighthouse box,  very hard to come by.

OK, I'll chip in first and try and see from the following comments if I get it right.
My 37, which was out of Ray's collection,,,, and its one of the first he talks about in the " from the beginning thread".
Now, from Mike's book, he states the 37 had a major difference that separated it from all other senators, it had no front harness lugs.
But he went on to say, that because there was no photo in the brochure, there's no way of knowing whether this was standard or, whether it was just the early 37 ones were without and the later 37 ones after reviews, front lugs were added.
My one is definitely a 37, but the handle has been swapped out to a torpedo type, which was introduced in 39, which was common.
One thing you could check John, the 37 Senator, had brass gear, after 37, they went to steel gears, so crack it open and see what you have.
HTH
P.S  Maybe it's just me, but I'd be keeping both, especially if the new one has brass gears, which means you have 2 complete 37 model Senators showing the progression of the model for that year...
OR just sell the box to me   Grin

Col

Col : There is a picture in the 37 catalog that shows a Senator not sure if it's a 9/0 or 12/0 but same knob as my early 12/0 and no harness lugs !! And I do plan on keeping both !!   John Taylor


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1badf350
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-Chris


« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2019, 06:18:44 AM »

John in that picture I think its a 9/0. Scalloped head plate bushing and no oil port handle.
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-Chris

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
John Wayne as J.B. Books in "The Shootist"
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2019, 08:56:14 AM »

John,  I would say it's a '38 due to the harness lugs and handle.
Also, that's a 9/0 in the photo and the 9/0 handle is different than the 12/0 pencil handle.
Incredible piece to say the least,
Dom
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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2019, 09:38:03 AM »


 I have a copy of a Penn advertisement June of '38 that shows 12/0 with log knob, which leads me to believe the 12/0 pencil knob was already history by then. Now try and find a 12/0 with a log knob....ain't happening.....which leads me to believe late '38 12/0 had a torpedo knob like yours. During this time is also when the coin edge cb was redesigned with a higher profile

 Ted
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1badf350
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-Chris


« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2019, 05:08:02 AM »

John one other thing I have noticed with my reels. The location of the hole in the spool changed at some point. On the earliest reels, the hole is located closer to the side flange. I don't know when exactly the change was made but at some point the hole was move 1/8" or 1/4" closer to the center.
This is true for the 9/0 reels as well and the later spool is not interchangeable with the earlier spool. I tried to swap one into a 1936 9/0 and the spool shaft was bigger and was a no go.

EDIT
I got together all of my first GEN 12/0 reels and one early second generation with hole in the school. I found the hole locations have moved twice. Measurements are from side flange to center of hole
1937 first year = 10mm
3 subsequent first gen reels = 17mm
Early second generation prewar = 23mm


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« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 01:30:56 PM by 1badf350 » Logged

-Chris

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
John Wayne as J.B. Books in "The Shootist"
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