alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial My findings on welded rings.
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
December 14, 2019, 06:41:21 PM *
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Author Topic: My findings on welded rings.  (Read 784 times)
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gstours
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« on: December 02, 2019, 11:11:27 AM »

As mentioned last week I hoped to get some more supplies to get this process and itís disappointing parts behind me.   I found some brass..062Ē dia rod and made some rings.
   Using the same flux and 4% silver content wire solder I found that the soldier flowed pretty good and tested the rings by pulling by hand and having a baggage spring scale attached to the wall.
   An example shown below.


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Ron Jones
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« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2019, 11:13:12 AM »

Nice
What weight did you test them too?
The Man
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Ronald Jones
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gstours
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2019, 11:21:22 AM »

The results were pretty good,  consistent at least.   A total of 4 jigs had each end silver soldered twice.
    Only 1 out of the 8 tested broke at the non swiveled end?   What does that mean?
        After redoing the rings again, Iím going to test only the unbroken unswiveled rings to see what I can learn.   Thanks for your help so far 🤙😸🚣‍♀️


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Ron Jones
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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2019, 11:32:54 AM »

I'd say the results were great!
Not sure that there is a difference between swiveled and not swiveled, I'm sure the experts will pipe up soon.
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Ronald Jones
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David Hall
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2019, 01:45:07 PM »

interesting work there Gary what is the target species for these rigs?  im looking into tuna jigs so 200# plus before failure is what I am looking for and I cant put that much pressure on anything by hand.  I suppose if I hung myself upside down by my feet from the ring I could get close, but how would I get down after?
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Hardy Boy
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« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2019, 01:55:31 PM »

Breaking at 70 lbs is a lot of force; more that you would ever be able to put on any line with a rod and reel. Most of us never fish over 20 lbs of drag (except for the Boss who goes up to 45 or 50 with specialized rail rods). That should be more that enough to pull any butt that swims to the surface. I would be interested to see how some of the swivels, split rings and clips test against there stated ratings. I would be happy with 70 but maybe you can get it up to 100 and then you should be more than set.


Pull away:

Todd
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Todd
gstours
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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2019, 04:47:07 PM »

  Thanks for the encouragement.  Yes the jury is out,  the consistent  results so far of these tests were to me more important than these early stages of learning to walk/run. Undecided
  This is brass wire.   This was inexpensive, and fairly available to most folks.     You that need more pounds of proof before a failure have it seems like better materials available at slightly more costs.
Stainless steel in various alloys would be waay stronger in tinsel strength, and a higher silver content solder may be stronger as well.
  But i,m not there yet.   I did locate some Staysilv Black Flux and the mailman brought some approx 56% silver hard wire solder today to play with.  Now i,m not sure if the butane torch will have the btu's to do the job?   Maybe a Mapp job?  Anybody know?
   Another question is how many people trust their snaps, split rings, welded rings, knots,  etc to test them and what is the accepted testing method?     What percentage of line strength should the connecting tackle prove out to be?
  There are many variables to all this fishing stuff, Huh? equipment, weather, ocean conditions, bad skippers, traveling, booking etc,  life is short.
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Hardy Boy
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« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2019, 08:52:22 PM »

I will tie up leaders , top shots, jigs with split rings, what ever and I will hook them to my vise and pull hard to test them. Obviously its it a 400 lb halibut jig harness I pull way harder than a harness for a salmon plug. I have found most failures occur right away and if they don't they will hold way more pull than you would ever put on them. Its amazing the stretch and bending you can get on the line, hooks and rings but you have to compare it to what you would put on any fish. The only way you would put over 70 lbs of pull on a jig would be if you were hand lining a halibut over the rail into the boat.................... my thoughts.


Cheers:

Todd
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2019, 08:58:40 PM »

Gary, show us what the broken rings look like.  I tried to do that but when the ring broke it would fly away.  Tried it three times and couldn't find any of them.
-steve
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Cor
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I am probably fishing......


« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2019, 10:04:47 PM »

This is a topic that has always made me wonder.   Sometimes I pull a fish till I expect something to break. Occasionally I straight stick to pull a Yellowtail through Kelp.  Hooks pull, light hooks sometimes open, rods break if you do stupid stuff with them, the line breaks, mainly at a terminal knot, but besides that Iíve never seen a bit of terminal tackle like a ring break.
Maybe a cheap swivel will separate because of poor manufacture.

I decided many years ago that the amount of stress on the tackle is not nearly as much as us anglers believe.
70 lb before a ring breaks, wow thatís a lot in my thinking.    Sometimes a lure gets stuck on the bottom, it is hardly possible to break the 50lb  line when you try to break or dislodge it.   Then again I don't fish for huge fish, occasionally a 150lb Tuna.

I stopped using swivels in front of my lures many year ago.   Just line to a clip or ring on to the lure.
Most guys here use 1.6mm stainless split U clips to attach lures to line and also hooks to lures.  

I use much cheaper chrome plated steel clips.    Those were the only ones available when I started fishing in 1960, never broke and I decided what was good enough then at 1/10th of the price of the modern SS devices, is good enough for me now.   The most right-hand one on the photo marked (A) I now mainly use to attach my line/lure and makes it very easy to change lures.     (B) is the cheap clip I use on my hooks.

The worst that has ever happened is a hook somehow falling of from a clip, or a clip becoming bent, but I do not remember ever losing a fish because of a ring/clip failing.  (It has probably happened)   Of course they do corrode, but that is just not a serious problem, hooks corrode faster.

I Was once given 3 Tady lures by a friend in CA, this was going to solve all my Yellowtail frustration was the promise that came with it. Grin Grin   My first thought was ďhow do you guys change the hooksĒ if they are welded on.


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Cornelis
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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2019, 10:50:43 PM »

Seventy pounds of pull at a right angle to the rod tip should be enough to catapult someone over the rail or drag them off the cliff.
-steve
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Cor
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I am probably fishing......


« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2019, 11:09:36 PM »

Seventy pounds of pull at a right angle to the rod tip should be enough to catapult someone over the rail or drag them off the cliff.
-steve
Specially when using a very strong, 11ft or more fast action rod.    Ask me, I once took a rod like that accidentally on a boat....had to ease off on the drag as it was not possible to hold the rod when the fish went down.
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2019, 11:12:38 PM »

Excellant information.  My thinking was way off on the needed strength for these and I am only to happy to
Learn this.  Keep it up Gary the topic is inspiring.
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gstours
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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2019, 08:22:11 AM »

Oh yes,🧜‍♂️, I,m not done learning yet.🎣.   We all have opinions and thoughts on this terminal tackle stuff.
    I generally use 200# swivels on my halibut rigs, and have generally had a hard time breaking the 80# spectra when hung on the bottom.   This is a good way to test your gear!   My way to break free is if thetide is slack to wrap down on the line overboard with parallel wraps until you canít get more on a aluminum ball bat and then pull with both hands.   Sometimes itís difficult butt the line always breaks first never for me ,  for my fishees that are not hook shy, heavier than you need tackle is an insurance policy,  more than the weather phone 📲 app.☔️🧐
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gstours
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2019, 07:15:17 PM »

As per your request Iíve got a picture of a failed brass silver soldered ring.  Shown below.
  Today 4 more rings were tested and the average test in pounds when failure occurred is 47 ...
      Pulling gradually above fifty pounds by hand becomes kinda jerky....
The better way to pull the test is doing the mechanical thing.  Butt,🤔. Isnít that what we wanted after all.? Huh?     I tried to solder a ring with the 50+ % silver solder butt could not get enough heat from my butane torch.   Whatís poor boy 👦 to do?


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