Quick 220 drag stack questions...

[Beachmaster]

Rebuilding a 220 and just wanted to double check if this is correct for the drag stack and I am not missing anything?  I looked at the thread with the 221 rebuild and that drag stack and spool look different.  I don't have that star washer in this 220 reel, wouldn't even fit in this spool.

[foakes]

There are at least a couple of different spools for a 220/221.

One has the wire ring that holds all in place -- the other has the star compression keeper that holds the stack in place.

The star compression keeper will actually crack the spool on older spools.

You can experiment with what works the best on the drag stack -- should have the spring washer at the bottom, followed by a metal keyed washer, asbestos drag washer, another either keyed or round hole metal washer.  Most any variation is OK if there is room for the stack -- and the drag knob will adjust properly.

Best,

Fred

[Beachmaster]

So I am missing a metal washer here?  Yes, I have the brass spring that locks them all in place on this spool.  Also, is it ok to put some Cal's drag grease on the asbestos or no drag grease?

[foakes]

Drag grease should only be used on CF's (carbon fiber or HT-100's).

If used on anything slick like the resistex drags on these, nylon, or Delrin -- it is just like oiling your car brakes -- won't stop.

You might have a metal washer missing -- I cannot tell with the grease and crud on those for sure.  And I am not sure what that washer is on the right.

But as long as you have a spring on the bottom, a resistex or two in the stack, and metal to separate and mate -- it will work.  Resistex drags are used dry.

Best,

Fred

[Beachmaster]

Fred, where does this little whitish plastic washer go? It was hidden under all the hunk and showed up in the cleaning solution.

[foakes]

Between the crank handle and the thumb crank nut.

Best,

Fred

[Ruffy]

There are at least a couple of different spools for a 220/221.

You can experiment with what works the best on the drag stack -- should have the spring washer at the bottom, followed by a metal keyed washer, asbestos drag washer, another either keyed or round hole metal washer.  Most any variation is OK if there is room for the stack -- and the drag knob will adjust properly.

Best,

Fred

Hi Fred,
Thinking about this, if you have the spring washer first, then a metal keyed washer, won't the metal spring washer be acting as a drag washer per say with metal on metal friction? I have the larger drag stack with eared washers however it has the same issue; I'm trying to figure out how I can go spring washer, eared washer, then a traditional 3 stack however fitting it all in will be the challenge!

Cheers,
Andrew

[foakes]

Andrew --

Yes, the spring washer will work as a drag with a metal washer.

Depending on where you wish to end up --

You can reduce the arc in the spring washer a bit, sand down the metal washers to half their thickness with a belt sander, then install thin CF's greased with Cal's.

There is room for experimenting with what you think might work -- as long as you know the basic principles of a drag stack when it comes to friction, keyed, round center, drag washers, springs, and adjustable smoothness through free spool to lockdown.

Most of what you try will generally work -- some better than others -- but all variations are pretty effective.

Best,

Fred

[mo65]

Thinking about this, if you have the spring washer first, then a metal keyed washer, won't the metal spring washer be acting as a drag washer per say with metal on metal friction?

  The spring washer is in a position to act as a drag washer...but it really doesn't contribute much friction. You can see the shiny spots on the highest points of the wave where it rubs against the keyed washer above it. I usually just grease it so it slides even easier. But Fred is correct...there is room for several variations. If I was going to customize it, I'd put an eared washer on top of the spring washer and then proceed making a 3-stack of carbon fiber. With thin carbon fiber discs it should all fit. Might have to take a little off a metal washer or two.

[Gobi King]

Factory washers = no oil or cal's grease , just assemble them dry?

The star spring keeper is ok to be removed?

[foakes]

Factory washers = no oil or cal's grease , just assemble them dry?

The star spring keeper is ok to be removed?

Factory resistex washers are a smooth, hard material -- need to be used dry, otherwise there will be little or no drag.

The toothed keeper can be omitted, if the drag knob is always in place -- and you are not worried about losing parts when/if the drag knob is ever removed completely for any reason.

Best, Fred

[handyandy]

I had pretty good luck on my 221 just replacing my old worn oil soaked resistax with thicker cf ones I cut/filed down myself. I went with the factory placement of the stack, my spool used the little toothed retainer washer I believe rather than the snap ring type one, but yours should use the same washers. I think you are missing a metal one. I haven't seen a need to sand down my metal washers to try and squeeze more disc in. The factory set up with cf disc has produced more than ample drag for what I use the 221 for. I have 10lb mono on one of my 221's, and 30lb braid on another. I've caught plenty of largemouth, smallmouth, and hybrid stripers on my 221's. The hybrids are what test it the most when you get a bigger one in some current they will peel some drag and really test the drag system in a smaller reel. The 221 is one of my favorites I'd really like to get my hands on a 221n.

[foakes]

Unfortunately, Andy --

D.A.M. never produced a 221N.

That is one reason why the "221" (a unique high speed version of the 220) is considered rare and desirable. 

Few original 221's were manufactured -- and the model was never included in the "N" (newer line) of Quicks.

The early Finessa series included (7) models -- 110, 220, 221, 330, 331, 440, & 550.

In the "N" series, the 221 was discontinued -- and a 441 was added -- 110N, 220N, 330N, 331N, 440N, 441N, 550N.

Best,

Fred

[Beachmaster]

Between the crank handle and the thumb crank nut.

Best,

Fred

Fred,

Was putting the reel back together tonight and I have run into a few issues.  First, the little "whittish" looking washer will not go behind the handle nut, I tried, I don't recall it being on there when I was taking it off.  It came from somewhere else on the reel.  Also, I am pretty sure I am missing one of the keyed metal washers in the drag stack.  My drag knob is "sunk in" and has no adjustment.  I also don't understand the spring washer going into the hole of the spool first for the drag stack.  For some reason, mine is not sitting flat at the bottom, is that ok?  Maybe I have another spring washer mixed up somewhere?  Ugh!  I need a schematic of this 220!  I am about to loose my mind!

[Beachmaster]

I had pretty good luck on my 221 just replacing my old worn oil soaked resistax with thicker cf ones I cut/filed down myself. I went with the factory placement of the stack, my spool used the little toothed retainer washer I believe rather than the snap ring type one, but yours should use the same washers. I think you are missing a metal one. I haven't seen a need to sand down my metal washers to try and squeeze more disc in. The factory set up with cf disc has produced more than ample drag for what I use the 221 for. I have 10lb mono on one of my 221's, and 30lb braid on another. I've caught plenty of largemouth, smallmouth, and hybrid stripers on my 221's. The hybrids are what test it the most when you get a bigger one in some current they will peel some drag and really test the drag system in a smaller reel. The 221 is one of my favorites I'd really like to get my hands on a 221n.

Andy,

What poundage / size fish are you or have you caught with no issues on that reel?