A Couple Of Rod Finish Tricks

[Midway Tommy]

This may be old news to many of you DIY rod builders but while undertaking my winter rod building endeavor I discovered a little trick I thought I would share. This came about because I wrap all my tips behind the tiptop. I always apply two coats of finish over all my wraps. This fix will work anywhere else you use epoxy finish, though.

I'm not sure why but it seems that even though the rod is level while rotating in my rod dryer and removing any excess epoxy after application I end up getting a bulge or bubble, especially after the second coat, somewhere on the tiptop wrap. I tried a couple different fixes like shaving off the excess with a razor blade and either wiping over the dull shaved area with acetone or denatured alcohol. After they dried both still left the area dull. I don't use throwaway brushes to apply my epoxy. I have a nice little angled Taklon brush I use and clean it, first in a little acetone and second in a little lacquer thinner, after each use. The acetone in that jar starts to become thick after a couple of soaks. I wondered if dipping the brush in that thick acetone/thin epoxy combo and applying it on the dull area might work better, and voil'a. There is no buildup to rotate so it can just stand vertical and when it dries you can't tell it had ever been touched.

My second trick, for those of you like me that use regular nylon thread and want to retain those bright vibrant colors, is a cheap homemade color preserver. In this day and age almost everyone of us DIYs has a little water based urethane around the house. A mixture of 60% water base urethane and 40% distilled water makes a fantastic, and cheap, color preserver that will never fade or turn yellow under the epoxy finish. The addition of 40% distilled water allows the mix to soak deep into the threads, protecting the deeper portion of the thread and also binding them together well. Another really nice thing about this concoction is that it dries quickly so it is easy to give your wraps three or four coats in one day and lay on the first coat of finish the next day. I have given wraps one coat the first evening, added two more coats the next morning & noon and applied epoxy that evening, all with great results. If you have a tightly sealed container it will last forever. I made a little batch in a tiny plastic 3/4 oz Tone's spice jar 5 years ago and it's still just like I made it. I've built 15 rods with it and still have 2/3 of the jar left. That batch will probably last me the rest of my life.           

[steelfish]

..........little water based urethane around the house. A mixture of 60% water base urethane and 40% distilled water makes a fantastic, and cheap, color preserver that will never fade or turn yellow under the epoxy finish.

tommy, thanks for the tip.

I read somewhere else about the DIY color preserver with water based urethane, the formula was 50% urethane and 50% DNA, I made some tests versus the regular Flexcoat CP and the problem I saw with that special sauce was that once you add the urethane to a light colored thread it became darker which is normal but even after it got dry the thread never returned to the original light color, with the regular CP as flexcoat the thread gets darker but returns to their original color, so I never used that DIY CP formula.
I dont know how different would be changing DNA and destiled water on the formular with the urethane, all i know that if you use only 100% urethame on regular nylon will make the color darker and it will stay like that.

[Rivverrat]

Tommy here is a link to a thread that hits some of what your saying. https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=30519.0     Xylenol doesnt evaporate any where near as fast as other stuff.

Also I dont have the love affair with D2 finish that others do. It sets off to quick. I can apply finish to 3-4 rods from a single mix with other epoxies. I have not been quick enough to do this with D2. Any time your finish starts to fire off & stiffen & loses a bit of it's flow you run the high risk of not having a smooth even surface.

Finish needs to be used while it's in it's most liquid state for the easiest & best results. This saves time & gives best results.  You can add heat but this also can be problematic it causes the finish to flow but it will set up real quick. This will happen with D2 more than others I have used. I also don't like High Build for guide wraps. Only using it for decorative butt wraps

 What works for me may not do as well for others. With finish, humidity & temp have a very profound effect on the working qualities of any finish some more than others... Jeff

[Midway Tommy]

the formula was 50% urethane and 50% DNA,

The problem with that mix is the alcohol evaporates too fast and all you end up with is urethane @ 100%. 60-40 with distilled water thins it permanently and allows for a little longer soak in to dry ratio. It will turn the threads a little darker initially but they go right back to original within a couple of hours after it's dry. I'll post pic in a day or so of a light colored wrap I did a couple of weeks or so ago so you can see how it turned out. 

Tommy here is a link to a thread that hits some of what your saying. https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=30519.0     Xylenol doesnt evaporate any where near as fast as other stuff.

Also I dont have the love affair with D2 finish that others do. It sets off to quick. I can apply finish to 3-4 rods from a single mix with other epoxies. I have not been quick enough to do this with D2. Any time your finish starts to fire off & stiffen & loses a bit of it's flow you run the high risk of not having a smooth even surface.

Finish needs to be used while it's in it's most liquid state for the easiest & best results. This saves time & gives  You can add heat but this also can be problematic it causes the finish to flow but it will set up real quick. This will happen with D2 more than others I have used. I also don't like High Build for guide wraps. Only using it for decorative butt wraps

 What works for me may not do as well for others. With finish, humidity & temp have a very profound effect on the working qualities of any finish some more than others... Jeff

Jeff, I think your brushes are going to catch the "Virus"! 

I use Envirotex Lite for my finish. It's less expensive, lasts, seemingly, forever (my 8 oz each of resin & hardener is over 10 years old and works as new) and, to me at least, provides a much nicer & uniform finish than Flex Coat. To get a longer working time I put the bottles next to the outside wall (in the winter) & mix it cold. Room temp is about 65 F with constant year round 50-60% humidity. I mix 5 ml each, i.e. 10 ml, and pour it out onto a piece of aluminum foil in a little pot pie pan. After the extra epoxy sets up I'll flip it over & use the back side for another mix, then throw it away. 10 ml will do about 3 6'-6" rods but I can't work that fast. Then, after the epoxy's applied, I turn an electric heater on & bring the room to about 75 or 80 for 3 or 4 hours to speed up setting up.

 

[Rivverrat]

 



Jeff, I think your brushes are going to catch the "Virus"!  


 

 I'm sure my brushes have been exposed to all manner of viral nastiness. Tommy I've not heard of or used that finish before. But I will give a try. Thanks for the link... Jeff

[steelfish]

the formula was 50% urethane and 50% DNA,

The problem with that mix is the alcohol evaporates too fast and all you end up with is urethane @ 100%. 60-40 with distilled water thins it permanently and allows for a little longer soak in to dry ratio.

that makes a lot of sense !!
I will try that up pretty soon.

thanks Tommy

[steelfish]

Also I dont have the love affair with D2 finish that others do. It sets off to quick. I can apply finish to 3-4 rods from a single mix with other epoxies. I have not been quick enough to do this with D2. Any time your finish starts to fire off & stiffen & loses a bit of it's flow you run the high risk of not having a smooth even surface.
... Jeff

so, amigo, can you tell me whats your choise of epoxy finish ?

I really like D2, but really wish it has more pot life, I've used LS supreme and it has long pot life but I dont know why in my zone never gets as solid as D2 or flexcoat even after dry for weeks.

[Rivverrat]

Alex, I use old Flex Coat Lite. If D2 works for you stay with it. But ya the pot life on it is why I don't get along with it. Some like Jon love it & works for them just fine. When I have several rods I like to wrap several then do the finish coat on several rods at one time. Hard for me to do this with D2... Jeff

[Midway Tommy]

Here are a few examples of rods I have been working on. All have had the 60/40 color preserver treatment to the threads. I also included some spools of the original thread so you can see how well the color preserver works. The rod on the right has 3 coats, only, of my 60/40 color preserver brew. It is now ready for finish. The 4 rods on the left all had 3 coats of preserver and 2 coats of Envirotex Lite. I'm pretty happy with the way they turned out. The diamond wrap on the right rod was my third attempt at diamond wraps. Covering the ends is kind of a slow process & pain in the rear. Keeping each wind tight and not over-wrapping backwards is a tedious process. I like strong tension on my thread and it doesn't slide sideways very well on the thread below if there's much space in between.   The first 2 diamonds turned out really nice, also, and I'm working on a 4th one right now. I'll post some photos of all of them when I complete this last rod.

RE Edit: The light thread on the right rod is Gun Metal, not white...... and......another trick I learned before I got my resin/hardener calculated perfectly is that if you didn't get an exact mix and your finish turns out a little tacky after 24 or 48 hours you can wipe them down with a liberal denatured alcohol wipe and the surface will be hard the next day.

[Rivverrat]

Tommy, looks like you have a very nice rack of lite weight spinning rods there.  I'll bet you love using them every time your out being that you made them. I see a St. Croix. Just so you & others know St. Croix blanks are still available through Rod Geeks but no longer through St. Croix... Jeff

[Midway Tommy]

Tommy, looks like you have a very nice rack of lite weight spinning rods there.  I'll bet you love using them every time your out being that you made them. I see a St. Croix. Just so you & others know St. Croix blanks are still available through Rod Geeks but no longer through St. Croix... Jeff

Thank you, Sir! Yes I do enjoy fishing my own builds. I was pretty lucky when I snatched onto that St Croix SC III Avid blank. I have a couple of Legend Elite builds that I picked up years ago when Cabela's sold St. Croix blanks. They are so sensitive that sometimes I can feel my weight dragging over road gravel sized pebbles. Anyway, Cabela's quit selling rod blanks a long time ago but a few years back I stopped in at our local Cabela's and low and behold they had two, still in the plastic shipping socks, 7'-0" medium fast 10-17# SC III Avid blanks in barrel in the Bargain Cave. I made the manager an offer of $45, I was thinking each, but he accepted the offer and he priced it out for both!    I smiled all the way home. The other rod I'm working on now is the second of those blanks. I did, though, cut them down off the butt end to 6'-8" because I don't like rods that long.   

[oc1]

St. Croix blanks are still available through Rod Geeks

Yeah, but they don't have much selection and I believe the price has gone up.
-steve

[Rivverrat]

Steve, I've been meaning to call them about that. But ya the number of blanks they list is small... Jeff

[steelfish]

............and he priced it out for both!    I smiled all the way home. ...

I know that feeling !! 


@ Jeff, I just bought a supply of D2 for several rods with my normal rods jobd I have that will last me for months, so, no hurry to change the brand of epoxy finish I was just checking what other guys use, I actually have 8oz of flexcoat lite that I use on small guide repairs when I restore or customize a rod I use D2, there is a "well known" guy in the rodbuilding industry, Billy Vivona that is using a mix of two different brands of finish to have the best of both brands, finish, clear and long pot life, I really never knew which are the w brands of epoxy he is mixing together and whats the ratio but hear that for him is working just right.

[Rivverrat]

Alex, I'll be talking with Billy V. I'll ask him... Jeff