Daiwa "Screw of death" ?

Started by jplee3, April 29, 2020, 07:39:34 AM

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jplee3

Hey guys,

So I learned about the "screw of death" the hard way, unfortunately.



It sounds like this may be locked in with red loctite as per this thread for a Steez:
https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/index.php?topic=143794.0


I stumbled across this article on ways to remove a stripped screw in the reel:
http://www.tackletour.net/viewtopic.php?t=29636

Quotea #1 size screw extractor bit(aka reverse taper bit) and a 1/16" drill bit.......though the package for the #1 screw extractor bit will say you need a 3/32" bit, ONLY USE 1/16"!!! anything larger will cut outside of the threaded part of the screw and into your reel frame.... i.e. it will destroy your frame!!!

action:
take the screwdriver and waller out the hole as centered as possible. then alternate between the drill bit and the reverse taper bit until the reverse taper bit catches. work slowly, methodically, and VERY carefully. drill a little, the test the extractor...repeat until the screw comes out.

more tips:
also, be sure to keep the bit(s) perpendicular to the frame as you work. due to the length of the bits, you will have to put as little of each bit into the drill chuck as possible to keep the moving chuck from smacking the top of the drive-shaft.
plus, remember that the screw extractor is "reverse taper"....meaning the drill must be in reverse for the bit to catch.

Annoying because now I'll need to buy a #1 extractor (not even sure which to get - spiral flute? left handed drill bit? screw extractor? any?).

Has anyone successfully gone through removing this screw and what were your steps in doing so? Also, is there a particular place you sourced your replacement screw(s) or could I find them at Home Depot or off Amazon (what size? I'm measuring M2.5 with a 2.5mm thread length and 4mm total length.


foakes

#1
If it were on my bench --

Just use a cut-off disc on a Dremel to cut a traditional screw slot -- then using a properly matched hollow-ground screwdriver with a large and controllable handle grip -- remove the screw using solid downward pressure.  Should be easy enough to find a replacement screw at a hobby or electronics store.

If this extraction was successful -- then even the screw you removed could still be used in a pinch.  Loctite after cleaning up the old screw is still advised.

I did invest in a good set of Torx regular and Micro screwdrivers a couple of years ago -- because while not used too often -- the do come up once in a while -- and are handy also for knife and electronics work.

And for Phillips screw heads on Japanese and Asian reels -- the proper "JIS" Phillips screwdrivers are needed -- which generally only give us one chance to remove -- if the wrong tool is used.  Any other Phillips will strip out the slots because of the design of the slot shoulders, angle, and depth.

Or, if you call Daiwa -- they would likely send you a screw for free.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

jplee3

Quote from: foakes on April 29, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
If it were on my bench --

Just use a cut-off disc on a Dremel to cut a traditional screw slot -- then using a properly matched hollow-ground screwdriver with a large and controllable handle grip -- remove the screw using solid downward pressure.  Should be easy enough to find a replacement screw at a hobby or electronics store.

If this extraction was successful -- then even the screw you removed could still be used in a pinch.  Loctite after cleaning up the old screw is still advised.

I did invest in a good set of Torx regular and Micro screwdrivers a couple of years ago -- because while not used too often -- the do come up once in a while -- and are handy also for knife and electronics work.

And for Phillips screw heads on Japanese and Asian reels -- the proper "JIS" Phillips screwdrivers are needed -- which generally only give us one chance to remove -- if the wrong tool is used.  Any other Phillips will strip out the slots because of the design of the slot shoulders, angle, and depth.

Or, if you call Daiwa -- they would likely send you a screw for free.

Best,

Fred

Thanks! I do have a Dremel but am apprehensive using it primarily due to lack of still/steady hands lol. Would you use blue Loctite instead? And is this primarily for keeping out foreign debris/water? The other matching screw on the other side did not appear to have any Loctite applied (but it was screwed it pretty tight)
I've read around that there's a particular Wiha screwdriver that works perfectly for these screws: PH1 x 60.

I may try calling Daiwa, although I think I've already used up that card as I previously requested a different part for this reel which they sent out for free not too long ago :T

foakes

Daiwa is a good company -- and will be happy to you again.

Locktite is likely not necessary -- but I always replace it if it was used by the factory originally.

Best, Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

jplee3

Quote from: foakes on April 29, 2020, 04:40:54 PM
Daiwa is a good company -- and will be happy to you again.

Locktite is likely not necessary -- but I always replace it if it was used by the factory originally.

Best, Fred

Thanks! I called them and they were very nice and offered to just send the single screw out at no cost. He warned me it would probably take a long time to get out to me due to the pandemic but it's not a big deal since I'm not going to be fishing anytime soon haha.

So I guess the next part is trying to get this thing out - picking up a micro grabit/screw extractor is definitely tempting but since I have a Dremel I suppose I could just try. Like I said though, my historically unsteady hands may result in a costlier repair which I'd want to avoid haha. I guess there's no guarantee with the extractor either but I'd want to minimize any sort of 'collateral' damage if at all possible.

Donnyboat

Hi JP, you should be okay with the dremmel, have a little practice, on a piece of mettle first, then you should be able to wrest your hand on the outer frame, to keep it steady, before you try to turn it, try a bit of heat, ( not flame heat near that plastic ) maybe apply heat with the point of a soldering iron, good luck stay safe keep well, cheers Don.
Don, or donnyboat

jplee3

Quote from: Donnyboat on April 29, 2020, 11:36:01 PM
Hi JP, you should be okay with the dremmel, have a little practice, on a piece of mettle first, then you should be able to wrest your hand on the outer frame, to keep it steady, before you try to turn it, try a bit of heat, ( not flame heat near that plastic ) maybe apply heat with the point of a soldering iron, good luck stay safe keep well, cheers Don.

Maybe I'll do that if I don't want to deal with an extractor bit. I do have a soldering iron - is it OK to put the tip/point of the soldering iron into the 'hole' creating from stripping the screw? I'm assuming that's the best place to place it to transfer some heat onto the screw. But how long do I want to keep it there? Will it do any damage to the frame?

philaroman

I'd be afraid of the cutting wheel 'cause it's countersunk (word?)
maybe a fine engraving bit, instead
if hands are turning to crap like mine & you play w/ Dremel enough,
consider the flex-hose/pen "dental drill" Dremel attachment

jplee3

Quote from: philaroman on April 30, 2020, 02:10:02 AM
I'd be afraid of the cutting wheel 'cause it's countersunk (word?)
maybe a fine engraving bit, instead
if hands are turning to crap like mine & you play w/ Dremel enough,
consider the flex-hose/pen "dental drill" Dremel attachment

Yep, I see what you mean - don't want to put any cuts or nicks into the drift shaft plate that the screw is holding in place. I've seen a video of a guy using an engraving bit though. Will have to dig through the dremel set but I don't think I have that. I may end up ordering this set, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086YBC7J3/, and using the #0 which it says works for 2mm-3mm screws. I believe this screw is an M2.5 (2.5mm diameter). The width of the head is about 4mm. So I think a #0 bit may work. It might not be a bad idea to use a solder as well to heat the screw up. I'm assuming to put it on the screw for maybe no longer than 10-20 seconds?

jplee3

Got the extractor set today and I'm having a really tough time with the screw still - I'm using the 1/16" bit and trying to drill down then using the extractor to try to reverse out but it's just not catching. Now quite sure what to do at this point - I'm very hesitant about using the Dremel cut off wheel because I don't want to gouge or nick the driveshaft retainer plate. I doubt I have the engraver piece but am not contemplating getting it - not even sure which bit I would want to get though... Ughhh

jplee3

I ended up getting it out. Had applied Liquid Wrench and at some point the clutch plate trigger started wiggling with the stripped screw still in place. I applied a bit more Liquid Wrench and then went at the stripped screw with a hammer and small screwdriver to get somewhat of a notch it. Not long after I was able to get it out pretty easily

PacRat

Great news. I've seen an electrician back out a broken bolt with a hammer and chisel but that was on a much larger scale. These tiny reel screws require just the right balance of finesse and authority. Well done!

Donnyboat

Very pleased that you got it out, now we want to see some pics of fish you catch, cheers Don.
Don, or donnyboat

jplee3

#13
Quote from: Donnyboat on May 17, 2020, 01:20:02 AM
Very pleased that you got it out, now we want to see some pics of fish you catch, cheers Don.

Quote from: PacRat on May 16, 2020, 09:39:17 PM
Great news. I've seen an electrician back out a broken bolt with a hammer and chisel but that was on a much larger scale. These tiny reel screws require just the right balance of finesse and authority. Well done!


Thanks guys - I'm relieved I got it out too. The next annoyance is that somehow, even though I put all the small parts from the teardown in a baggy, I've managed to lose one of the front plate screws for the front plate :( I already put an order in for a 'complimentary' replacement screw for the stripped drive shaft retainer plate screw too....hate to call back for something else. Guess I'll pay for it though. I've probably put more time and money into this reel than what it's worth at this point!