Grouper Junior — WIP

Started by Decker, March 24, 2020, 03:29:45 PM

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foakes

#30
Here is a new 3-113 with sleeve and pin --

If you still need it, Joe -- let me know and I will send it out tomorrow, N/C.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

Decker

Thanks, as always, Fred!  Your generosity knows no limits.   

I'm wondering how much difference there is between the two plates.  I don't have both to make a direct comparison, but they sure look alike.  The sleeve of the 3-113H is certainly wider; probably the shaft is also wider.   


foakes

OK, Joe --

Will go out tomorrow.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

Decker

Got Fred's package today, and what a package it is!   I'll soon experience what it is like to use professional quality screwdrivers!  Have the 113 bridge now an no excuses to continue.  Thank you, Fred!


xjchad

That's awesome Joe! I love the reel bag too!

The parts I sent should be there on Monday.
Husband, Father, Fisherman

mo65

Way to go Fred! Love those Oakes reel bags. Enjoy those screwdrivers Joe!
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


Decker

#36
Back at it...

Equipped with new screwdrivers, an Ultimate 5-stack, a 113 bridge, and some new Dremel parts, I restarted the attack last night.

First order of business was to install the SS gear sleeve on the 113 bridge from Fred.  I gather that this is usually a 5-minute deal, but found it to be a full lesson.   Firstly, the bridge came with a sleeve attached.  The pin that holds it to the post had been filed down, and I could not push it out easily.  I don't have a specific tool for this.  Tried a awl, and a filed-down mini-screwdriver.  After several frustrated attempts, I decided to score the sleeve with a hacksaw, with the aim of breaking it off.   You'll gather by this time that I am not very practiced in these matters.  To make a long story short, I did get the sleeve off.  In spite of being careful, the post did get nicked with the hacksaw, though not too badly.



Next step: fitting the sleeve to the bridge post.  Although the SS sleeve fit easily on the 66 bridge post, it was tight and binding when I forced it on the 113 post.   The post looked straight, and the hacksaw nick couldn't be the problem.  Sanded the post with 220 grit sandpaper.  After much trial and error, it fit and moved well.  When I put the pin in, again it was binding.  Took of the sleeve and worked the groove of the post with a fine file.  After much trial, got that working smoothly.  Chad had given me some spacers to put under the sleeve to remove any play there, but mine did not need it.

Next:head plate surgery. I installed the bridge alone to the head plate.  This made it plain that the center point of the sleeve on the 113 bridge was a bit closer to the edge of the plate than the stock 66 bridge.  Grinding would be focused on the outer semicircle of the main gear cutout.  My new carbide grinder bits were ready for the work.  I set up my dremel with the flex cable for maximum manageability, ans set it to the lowest speed to simulate Mo's battery-powered grinder.  No need for speed.  





There was so much trying and retrying, that in one night I became an expert in jack and yoke assembly.  I carefully avoided the daylight Mike had discovered when he attacked this same plate.  At the outermost point of the main gear cutout, I did catch a glimpse of the inside of the outer ring chrome, and proceeded in a gingerly manner in that area.  



At this point in time:

  • If I install the bridge and main gear with drag (without yoke, jack, and pinion) and put the drag star and handle on, the main gear spins well, without binding
  • If I install everything (short of the dog) and crank, there is some bumpy grinding.

I'm not sure if the grinding in the main gear against the plate (requiring more grinding) or some bad interaction of the gears.  It is making me think I need to double-check the model and condition of the gears.



xjchad

Good going Joe, sounds like you got a lot done and learned a lot too!

You said that it feel a bit rough when assembled.  Is this with a dry assembly or fully lubed?
Handle or no handle?
I find it usually feels a bit rough when spinning the gears on a dry assembly with no handle is normal.

Try some grease on the gears and put the handle on it.  I think it will feel a bit different.
Husband, Father, Fisherman

Decker

Quote from: xjchad on April 22, 2020, 03:48:20 PM
You said that it feel a bit rough when assembled.  Is this with a dry assembly or fully lubed?
Handle or no handle?
I find it usually feels a bit rough when spinning the gears on a dry assembly with no handle is normal.

Try some grease on the gears and put the handle on it.  I think it will feel a bit different.

Chad, thanks.  It is definitely dry now. I always tested with the star and handle.   I think the grinding is more than lube can cover, but I may try it.

You know how dentists use some kind of ink to mark high spots on your teeth when they need to grind them down a little... trying to think how I could apply the principle to the reel fitting.

Decker

#39
Adding details about the gear stack:

  • Nothing between the sleeve and the plate. Fit has virtually no play but is smooth.
  • Under-gear carbontex that came with Ultimate kit.
  • 5-149 main gear with Ultimate 5-stack.
  • 4 belville washers stacked for max space and compressiblility, on top of the last drag washer, inside the plate.

mo65

#40
  Adding the pinion seems to be triggering the grind. I'd check that out first...make sure you're trying the 113H and not the stock pinion. That is about all I can come up with now...but I'll roll this around in my head a bit more. 8)

Quote from: Decker on April 22, 2020, 03:59:16 PM
You know how dentists use some kind of ink to mark high spots on your teeth when they need to grind them down a little... trying to think how I could apply the principle to the reel fitting.

   I mark suspect spots with fresh blue grease. It will be wiped completely clean where it rubs.
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


Crow

Looks like it's coming along, nicely ! Gotta' love the "ohana " spirit !!
There's nothing wrong with a few "F's" on your record....Food, Fun, Flowers, Fishing, Friends, and Fun....to name just a few !

Darin Crofton

Great job, Joe, attempting the unknown for you is not always easy, but glad you're giving it a shot, it's inspiring! D
God, Family and Fishing, what else is there?

xjchad

Just saw your pics Joe.
Is the pinion contacting the bridge plate?
Husband, Father, Fisherman

Decker

The roughness is cyclical, and seems like the gears.  The pinion is off-center of the bridge, but does not rub against it.  The pinion I pulled from a 113h and the main stainless 5-149 was bought used on eBay.  I'll pull them later to see what I can see, and maybe try them lubed.