muratic acid for freeing up a seized handle

[Navidad Nutcase]

Good day to all, I hope the ''virus'' has avoided you or at least is giving you a fighting chance at beating it.

My question is in regards to using liquid plumber or equivalent to free up a seized handle on a Penn 50T international. I tried everything from WD40 to heating the handle. Nothing improved the movement from the ( on a scale of 1 to 10) 0.5 movement I had.

I found some info that says muriatic acid will take chrome and/or the gold electroplating off a Penn International faster than dropping it overboard. However, as far as I can see there is only Stainless steel on this handle knob stem. I removed the handle from the flat stock and stuck the stem in an old 35mm plastic film canister full of drain cleaner containing ... ahh? ... I don't remember the chemical name but it is a diluted muriatic acid solution.  I could only barely move the handle before submerging. I left it for a day. It showed remarkable improvement but I'd say only 10% freed up of what it should be. 3 more days shows no further improvement.  With a wrench on the bolt stem and my hand on the knob apply about 10# of pressure, I can turn it.
I think the plumbing solution ( IMO) is to thick to penetrate farther.
   Question... do you think using straight muriatic acid ( being much more like water and less like this syrupy plumbing stuff.) will penetrate deeper without eating anything but the salt? And does anyone think it WILL eventually eat the stainless steel?
The handle's not worth much in the shape it is in, so I don't mind experimenting.
Thanks in advance,
Greg

[Alto Mare]

Greg, I'm not an expert on that stuff, but I do remember soaking gas burners in a bucket overnight in some 50/50 muriatic acid and water.
The next day there was nothing left.
Being a GC, I've used muriatic acid many times to remove cement from bricks and stones.

My advice to you would be to stay away from it, but wait for someone else Smarter than me to chime in.

Sal

[Alan Matsuno]

Maybe try ultrasound vs acid.

[Dominick]

Greg, I'm not an expert on that stuff, but I do remember soaking gas burners in a bucket overnight in some 50/50 muriatic acid and water.
The next day there was nothing left.
Being a GC, I've used muriatic acid many times to remove cement from bricks and stones.

My advice to you would be to stay away from it, but wait for someone else Smarter than me to chime in.

Sal

Hey Sal I remember you made a jig to turn the knob on a reel, but I could not find it.  Do you think that might work?  Dominick

[Navidad Nutcase]

thanks for the wise advice Sal. I know this is wicked stuff. I was a farmer/rancher in my past life and 1 swipe across a crack in a copper radiator from a cloth with a bit of acid on it - before soldering - made the copper as new. No rubbing necessary, just a swipe with a GLOVED hand holding a wet cloth. I'll not do anything for a couple more days. Maybe someone else has some ideas. It's hard to believe that seawater could get in between the 2 pieces that turn against each other, in a quantity to do so much damage ( no room for more than a drop of water ), and yet, now nothing I tried can get past that little bit of corrosion.

[Donnyboat]

I have used MO, Mikes idea, many time, that works good for me, he uses, Bycarb Soda, mixed with omo powder, makes up a past, then works it in around the shaft, Mike then lets it stand fo 20 minutes, then washes it out with hot water, then stand the handle on an angle so the water & paste drains out, I then get a serynge, with synthetic oil in it such as TSI 321, & squirt that around the shaft, works for me, personally I make my paste with Bycarb & Dynamo, good luck Cheers Don. you may find his post in general procedures section.

[Brewcrafter]

Hmm.  I'm not sure exactly what you have going on, but my $.02...You mentioned Liquid Plumber drain cleaner - now I know they make a lot of different products but in my part of the world the active ingredient is basically a really strong alkaline base (caustic, high up on the pH scale, and aggressive particularly when in comes to dissolving/attacking organics like the hair/fats that congeal and restrict drains).  On the "base" side of the pH range I have never needed to use anything stronger than Dawn dish detergent on a reel, and that is mostly to break down old grease, oils, etc.
Muriatic Acid on the other hand is the opposite (low pH) side of the spectrum.  My first thought is using it in conjunction with drain cleaner (a base) you are pretty much probably creating some bad smells, while the two chemicals neutralize each other into water and salts.  Yes, I have waaaayyy oversimplified this.  I would echo what others have said - milder chemicals, longer soak/contact times, and "elbow grease" with brushes as appropriate.  Be careful when it comes to "cocktailing" chemicals.  Even Muriatic Acid alone can be pretty severe stuff; I work with Phosphoric and Nitric Acid every day but when it comes to reels never have had to use anything more severe than good old Acetic (Vinegar). - john

[Tiddlerbasher]

Mix of acetone and transmission fluid 50/50 in a jar (with a loose cover not a screw down lid) placed in an ultrasonic bath filled with water - NO HEAT!!
Using this I've managed free-up some unmovable objects

[Donnyboat]

I think, Tiddlerbasher, Chris, is on the right track, with the acertone & AT fluid, injected into the shaft often, to soak it in vinegar for many hours, may strip the chrome of the shaft, please keep us informed on your progress, cheers Don.

[philaroman]

what's weaker than Acetic & readily available -- Boric

[oc1]

as far as I can see there is only Stainless steel on this handle knob stem.

Yeah, but there is brass inside the stem.  It's the brass sleeve that seizes on the steel post that is peened to the blade.

For our purposes, vinegar versus muriatic acid is a matter of dilution and soak time.  Very dilute muriatic may be no stronger than vinegar.  Muriatic acid is diluted hydrochloric acid.

Acid can cut corrosion, but it can also cause corrosion when it eats away the protective surface skin.

If you do it, please report back.
-steve

[Navidad Nutcase]

A couple years back I asked advice on switching over a Penn 12 drag washer to carbon fiber. No replies for 24 hours , so I did it MY way. Then posted the results only to find out if I had just waited a few days - I could have saved myself a lot of work. Never again. This time I did nothing for a few days, Now I have lots of choices.

    I grabbed the drain cleaner bottle. The active ingredient is hydrochloric acid. Doesn't say the strength. It is slowly doing the job so now I think I will flush it out and try some of your suggestions. I think the drain cleaner would have worked better ( penetrated deeper, faster) if it had just been a diluted acid/water mix. This stuff is like pancake syrup with a nice fragrance. Dangerous in my opinion if some kid got hold of it. This stuff needs to be stored under lock and key or on the 7' high shelf.

   The outside of the handle is NOT stainless as I reported, but rather a very nice chrome over brass. They don't make chrome like that anymore. It isn't flaking off but wearing thin from me constantly wiping the stem clean with a rag. I can see the brass thru the finish in a few places.

  O.K. enough. Thanks for all the help. I will report back with the procedure used, when the handle is 100%.
Greg

[Swami805]

Any chance something is bent in there?

[Navidad Nutcase]

Swami805,
  I checked as best I can. no dings or dents and it seems straight. I swapped it out for a new one, on one of the reels a Mexican amigo owns. They aren't known for good maintenance that far down the coast.... ''It worked fine when I threw it in the locker on the boat last fall"....  ya, that kinda maintenance. I think it is just so corroded with saltwater and countless days of condensation - it just gave up.
I have it soaking in a concoction of TSI-321 and tranny oil. I'll keep pulling it out, turning on it, and resubmerging until it comes free, or I'll go to plan ''B''. Like most everyone, I'm housebound (well, property bound ) and every reel, lure, pole, and even the lawnmower - cleaned, oiled, and honed to perfection nothing else to do.
Greg

[Donnyboat]

Hi Greg, the TSI wont do much good @ this stage, tranny oil & Acetone 50/50 mix should be good, & keep injecting it into were you need it, if you dont want to buy a large amount of Acetone, then take air tight jar to a ship wright, they generally have plenty, a ship wright over here gets it in a 200ltr drum, good luck cheers Don.