Bail won't close all the way - Penn conflict 2 3000

asp06 · May 04, 2020, 10:22:32 PM

Hi everybody,

I'm having an issue with the bail closing fully. I recently took the bail apart to grease the roller bushing since it was making noise. When I put it back to together, I noticed that sometimes the bail wouldn't fully close. If I slowly close it manually, it will make a clicking sound about half way and stop there. Then I have to manually push it again to get it to close all the way.

I double checked the bail spring and pretty sure it is assembled correctly. My next hunch was a bent bail wire. I did notice the bail arms had a gap where they meet the rotor. I did some tweaking and got them flush again but the bail is still exhibiting the same issue. It's almost like the spring doesn't have enough force to fully close the bail.

Any ideas what the issue could be?

alantani · May 04, 2020, 11:00:44 PM

unscrew the bail at the "non-spring" end and see if it is bent. if it is, bend it back into position so that the bail has minimal side pressure on the rotor. that might take care of the problem.

asp06 · May 05, 2020, 12:27:44 AM

So I removed the bail wire and operated the spring side, still no luck so I don't believe the bail wire is introducing any unnecessary force. I took apart the spring, cleaned out the grease and put new grease back in and it is still operating the same.

Maybe the spring needs to be replaced? It is a little over a year old so it's hard to believe it would be worn out at this point.

foakes · May 05, 2020, 01:39:29 AM

It could be the spring --

However, since you have correctly removed the bail to test the return function -- and it still hangs up without the bail attached --

The next step before just replacing the spring -- would be to take all of the trip and kicker parts off of the line guide side. Then carefully inspect them for any gouging, burrs, roughness, bends, grit, or crud -- then clean them very thoroughly.

Re-install without oil or grease -- test again.

At this point -- you are either good to go, relube, and button it up.

Or, upon further inspection, you notice a defect -- then order that part.

There are more parts in the trip/kicker mechanism than most folks realize. And you can spend a small fortune easily on the wrong parts.

Often times -- just a little sanding or filing of mating friction surfaces will do the trick.

One question: You mentioned that you took the bail apart to grease the roller bushing. Was the bail operating OK before you took it apart? If so, it is just likely an assembly order issue perhaps just slightly incorrect.

If we can help more, just post some pics -- and we will be glad to assist further.

Best,

Fred

asp06 · May 05, 2020, 02:51:56 AM

I should probably check into the rotor brake and spring after looking at that schematic. It's hard to tell but I'm guessing the rotor trip lever (28) interacts with the rotor brake (28D). If so, then I'm betting it didn't get installed correctly when I reassembled it.

foakes · May 05, 2020, 04:47:48 AM

Yeah, I think you are choosing the right place to start your diagnosis.

If it worked before -- it should work now if assembled as it should be.

It is sometimes easy to have a part backwards or not seated properly (ask me how I know).

In diagnosing problems in mechanical, electrical, or any equipment -- the process of elimination always starts with knowledge of how something is supposed to work. Plus that old Razor of Occam's -- basically that the simplest solution is generally the culprit.

Let is know how you do.

Best,

Fred

asp06 · May 06, 2020, 03:30:24 PM

So I dug a little deeper and pulled the rotor off to take a look at the rotor brake components. It looked normal and functioned properly so I don't think it was inhibiting the bail from closing properly.

I also removed all the bail spring components, cleaned them up and hit them with some fine sandpaper, hoping to remove any burrs that may be causing unnecessary friction. Re-assembled it dry and it was still sticking. I lubed it all with Penn grease and it is still doing the same thing.

Here are some pictures. I may try ordering new bail spring components to see if that fixed the issue.

asp06 · May 06, 2020, 03:32:51 PM

Some pictures of the rotor brake components

Hamachi · May 06, 2020, 10:40:19 PM

Send it back! One year warranty on all penn reels. Not an option? Well, I would fashion the bail wire so the ends are parallel and with no spring tension when in the working position. This may take several tries to get it just right. At least you'll know that's not the problem.

asp06 · May 07, 2020, 01:06:58 AM

Unfortunately it's 4 months out of warranty. I thought it was the bail wire too but I took it off and it is still doing the same thing, so I think that eliminates a bent bail wire.

Hamachi · May 07, 2020, 01:34:51 AM

I would send it in anyways. You can tell it's brand new just looking at it. They still might honor the warranty or charge a small fee to repair or replace bail mechanism. Otherwise it's just a process of elimination to get to the root of the problem. You should be closing the bail by hand anyway. I usually keep messing with it until I fix it or break it! Good luck!

oc1 · May 07, 2020, 07:31:22 AM

Penn is closed for now. There was a post about it.
-steve

asp06 · May 12, 2020, 07:10:00 PM

Quick update, I replaced the bail spring and pivot arm with parts from mystic. You can see in the picture the difference in spring length, new one is on the right. I thought for sure this would rectify the issue since the original spring probably has less preload in it's shortened state. Got it all put together and still experiencing the same problem. The bail feels a bit snappier but if I slowly close the bail manually it stops halfway and doesn't fully close all the way under it's own spring force. My other CFTII3000 works fine and I don't see any differences when I removed the side plate from that one.

Donnyboat · May 13, 2020, 01:45:43 AM

Hi ASP06, with your pictures, it looks like there is still some fine sand around, if you stripped it again, cleened everything with some air pressure, then lube it with very light oil, that may help, also screws No 31, & 36, maybe little to to firm, good luck, cheers Don.

CapeFish · May 13, 2020, 07:35:31 AM

Quote from: asp06 on May 12, 2020, 07:10:00 PM
Quick update, I replaced the bail spring and pivot arm with parts from mystic. You can see in the picture the difference in spring length, new one is on the right. I thought for sure this would rectify the issue since the original spring probably has less preload in it's shortened state. Got it all put together and still experiencing the same problem. The bail feels a bit snappier but if I slowly close the bail manually it stops halfway and doesn't fully close all the way under it's own spring force. My other CFTII3000 works fine and I don't see any differences when I removed the side plate from that one.

I have had the same problem on a cheap Silstar spinner, replaced the spring, lubed, nothing helped, i couldn't figure it out.