A good fly reel? / Topic veer - hammers

Started by Rancanfish, May 09, 2020, 01:55:49 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Balvar24

#15
Quote from: Midway Tommy on May 13, 2020, 08:21:33 PM
Since the subject now makes comparisons to claw hammers I'll ad my thoughts. Many have tried but none have ever been able to improve on the original wood handled Plumb. It was, until the company was sold, the best balanced claw hammer ever made, especially the 13, 16 & 20 oz round claw models. Some thought the wood handle was a negative but it wasn't for those who knew how to use it correctly. It had the best designed head with it's slightly convex face and rounded edge. The original wood handle design was a perfect fit to most carpenters' hands which made for near perfect balance. Craftsman & Stanley tried to copy it but never really came close in balance. Estwing comes close in its steel handled models but they're still not as well balanced as the original wood handle Plumbs. It just goes to show that sometimes it's hard to improve on simple perfection.

BTW, coming from someone who hand nailed subfloors, wall and roof sheathings for years before nail guns were the rage, IMNSHO, most of the framing type hammers on the market today are nothing more than prehistoric clubs. Using a hammer for driving nails all boils down to strong wrist action, eyesight and a well executed, and placed, rhythm.      

I like a nice Bluegrass (nice reels as well) myself, when you can find one.  However, my current all-purpose everyday framing hammer is a store-branded made in the USA by Vaughan 16 oz.  My hatched is a Plumb.

My fly reels are a Dam Quick and a couple of Mitchells.  One day I plan to learn to use them properly.

jurelometer

Since this thread has devolved to the finer points of hammers, I fear that we are proving Steve right  ;D ;D ;D

oc1

#17
Wow, I had no idea that being a Plumb fan is a thing.  My first hatchet in scouting was a Plumb.  Still is, come to think of it.  Over the next sixty years we picked up a small Plumb ball peen, a larger plumb ball peen, Plumb 3#hand sledge, and two plumb claw (someone swiped the first one when wife took it to work).  You can't break or wear them out.
-steve

Balvar24

As far as the handles, yes, nothing beats a nice piece of hickory.

jurelometer

Veering back to the original topic:

Nice to see some photos of the Solitude reel Tommy.   I have bumped into a few folk that swear by them.  Mostly river salmon/steelhead guys.

If you ever take one apart, I would love to see some photos.  I have some questions:

1.  The schematic does not show any seals or o-rings.  I was wondering if the Solitude reels were actually fully sealed.

2.  It looks like the reel has two drags - a small one with a fiber washer inside the drag knob, and a larger cork drag inside the "sealed" chamber on the inside of the sideplate.  Is that right?

3. It looks like the anti-reverse is a one way bearing press fit into a housing.  I read that after the company was sold to a machine shop in Washington, the design was changed to a slip fit with a circlip, so the bearing could be  replaced or flipped over to change between right/ left retrieve.   I am not a big one way bearing fan, and would worry about salt getting into the clutch mechanism.  Curious as to how well protected the one-way bearing is.

It seems that the Solitude reel was  designed with winter steelhead fishing in mind, and went to some lengths to prevent frozen water from affecting the drag and clutch.  The extra weight made the reel more resilient to being bounced off of rocks when wading, and the type III anodizing on the black reels meant better scratch resistance, which comes in handy with an exposed palming rim in addition to preserving the cosmetics.

I am not sold on this being a great reel for saltwater, but in many ways it foreshadowed the trend toward sealed reels that is so common nowadays.  An interesting reel for sure.

-J

Gfish

#20
Sorry for backtracking a bit. The carb. thing was interesting relative to simplicity.
Had a '74 Valiant, that dad sold to me cause he was sick of it not running right. I had a '68 Valiant already and lived in a Snow zone in the mountains. All through the winter's from '77-'79, the '68 with many more miles on it, started easily, the '74---nope. At times the '74 wouldn't start at all.
That was a good side by side comparison. Chrysler just didn't respond engineering-wise to Fed. Clean Air Act standards after '73. By '80 they had to be rescued by Mitsubishi Corp.
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

jurelometer

I was kinda expecting the Valiant carb verge off-topic, but the hammer merits thing caught me off guard.


Keeping us on topic is like herding cats ( myself included).   :)

Hopefully the next reply will not be about cats  ::)

-J

wfjord

Quote from: jurelometer on May 14, 2020, 06:12:50 PM
I was kinda expecting the Valiant carb verge off-topic, but the hammer merits thing caught me off guard.

Keeping us on topic is like herding cats ( myself included).   :)

Hopefully the next reply will not be about cats  ::)

-J

How about this:

Had a '74 Valiant back in the day. Sawed off the back half of the body (top, doors & quarter panels), removed back seats, laid down two pieces of 3/4" plywood to make a casting deck upon which I mounted a pedistal and swivel seat.  My brother drove me through the neighborhood while I used an 8wt line w/homemade shooting head to cast a large weedless deceiver to any local cats milling around.  Sold the cats to a local restaurant to make money to buy beer.  Accidently left a hammer under the hood of the car which got stuck in a fanbelt and destroyed the carburetor.  Got rid of the car. Got arrested because of the cats.


Will probably delete this post shortly.

Gfish

#23
Nah, come-on that was a good one, keep it. "A", for creativity and using all given elements. You had me goin till the selling cat's to a local resturant.
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

Tiddlerbasher


Midway Tommy

#25
Quote from: jurelometer on May 14, 2020, 05:39:07 PM
Veering back to the original topic:

Nice to see some photos of the Solitude reel Tommy.   I have bumped into a few folk that swear by them.  Mostly river salmon/steelhead guys.

If you ever take one apart, I would love to see some photos.  I have some questions:

1.  The schematic does not show any seals or o-rings.  I was wondering if the Solitude reels were actually fully sealed.

2.  It looks like the reel has two drags - a small one with a fiber washer inside the drag knob, and a larger cork drag inside the "sealed" chamber on the inside of the sideplate.  Is that right?

3. It looks like the anti-reverse is a one way bearing press fit into a housing.  I read that after the company was sold to a machine shop in Washington, the design was changed to a slip fit with a circlip, so the bearing could be  replaced or flipped over to change between right/ left retrieve.   I am not a big one way bearing fan, and would worry about salt getting into the clutch mechanism.  Curious as to how well protected the one-way bearing is.

It seems that the Solitude reel was  designed with winter steelhead fishing in mind, and went to some lengths to prevent frozen water from affecting the drag and clutch.  The extra weight made the reel more resilient to being bounced off of rocks when wading, and the type III anodizing on the black reels meant better scratch resistance, which comes in handy with an exposed palming rim in addition to preserving the cosmetics.

I am not sold on this being a great reel for saltwater, but in many ways it foreshadowed the trend toward sealed reels that is so common nowadays.  An interesting reel for sure.

-J

That's pretty much the story I've heard, too. I don't have a Solitude but the Gapen Wild River III is mine. It's pretty much like new so I've never thought about opening it up other than pulling the spool. I've had it for six or seven years and haven't even fished it yet.

Here's a couple more pics of the Wild River III and a copy of a Gapen catalog page discussing them. If you click on the catalog photo it will enlarge.  
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

wcarah

As has been mentioned earlier in this posting, there are many fly reel suppliers for a limited and static market.  The increasing participation of PRC manufacturers has actually introduced a new level of quality to the industry that has forced most suppliers into very high quality level aluminum cast and machined models.  The result is that there are many more good quality reels available than there once was and at reasonable prices.  Outside the very low end of the product spectrum, nearly all fly reels these days have good drags, excellent fit and finish, and long term durability.  If you are undecided about which reel to choose, take a look at a video produced by fly fishing guru Kelly Galloup for a frank and revealing discussion on what is really important in fly reel selection. Modestly priced models can have all the features you need for an enjoyable fly fishing experience. 

Warren

Midway Tommy

#27
I really enjoyed his take on drags & over rated drag power. That same concept can be used with spinning reels on most freshwater species, too. I've always thought it was way more important to have an ultra smooth drag rather than one that gets cranked down. Maybe that's because I use lighter line than most, generally 8 lb. max mono, except on my catfish, musky & pike outfits where 17lb. mono is max. I like to use the rod & line stretch to play the fish. Just cranking them in isn't much fun for me.
Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)

wcarah

You are right, with the lighter tippets I generally use for trout sized quarry, drag smoothness is more essential than stopping power, even with bigger steelhead.  With fish like salmon and northerns it's usually more of a tug of war and then I use a much heavier line and leader and a comparably sized reel with full disc drag.  I like the click and pawl reels of old for trout fishing since all the drag you will ever need is in the palm of your hand.  I also have some light duty disc drag models like the ABU Garcia Diplomat fly reels from the late 1970's which are good general all-around fly reels for trout and bass.  Outstanding classic reels made by Pflueger, Cortland, Martin, Ryobi and Orvis are available on the used market at very reasonable prices.  For saltwater, I would likely go with the newer reel designs with sealed drags.  You can spend a fortune on these reels and for my money you can get the same performance from lesser brands if you do your research.

Warren

jurelometer

#29
I am going to have to go a bit contrarian on you guys :)

While Galloup did make some points that were accurate for freshwater fishing, I disagree with a lot of it when it comes to saltwater.

Nearly any reel will be strong enough for freshwater species.   The most important feature (which was not mentioned) is an exposed rim for palming.  Palming is a great way to provide lighter drag, and for that backspin trick that Galloup was showing to pick up extra fly line and get the fish on the reel. An old Phlueger Medalist would be as effective a tool as any modern freshwater reel if it had an exposed smooth spool lip for palming.  And it would be more durable.  I have only taken about half a dozen  pike or muskie over 15 lbs, but have not have to ever put them on the reel, or even give them any line unless they eat right at the rod tip.  With bigger salmon in the river, lots of drag just means a long run downstream, just like Galloup said. I only tried that once :)

Sealed "maintenance free" reels are a nightmare.   They work until they don't, and many models are not easily serviceable and/or will void the warranty if you take them apart.   Underneath one of the seals is our old frenemy, the 440c stainless "one-way bearing".  Once the seals (usually just o-rings) dry out, wear out, or get contaminated, water gets in and if it is saltwater, the bearing rust quickly, and the reel  either loses the drag, or locks up.  Every year down in Baja, I run into folks who haven't fished their one or two year old reel for a year and now the reel is misbehaving.  With a standard dog and pawl clutch, just a bit a cleaning and maybe a cork re-lube if it is a cork drag, and I have them back in business.    But a rusted in one way bearing means that the reel is out of action, and possibly not worth saving.

The extra light saltwater reels can be pulled off the foot.  The frame will twist sideways- especially on tall/wide/light reels (all the fly reels that I have ever seen support the spool shaft on only one side), causing the spool to rub on the frame. There are some photos on the interwebs of spools buckling on big name lightweight reels when the drag is cranked down on a big fish.

Carbon fiber drags are pretty common now, but they are nearly always dry.  So when a sealed reel leaks a bit, the drag gets sticky.    

On wide vs narrow reels, the problems Galloup is mentioning must be unique to trout (small fish) tackle.  For saltwater reels, narrow spools require less leveling when winding, but are more prone to wedging the fly line under load. A wider arbor allows for the same amount of backing with a taller spool, which means more inches wound per revolution, but you have to pay more attention to packing the backing and fly line evenly.  There is sort of a sweet spot that balances arbor width and reel strength around 1 to 1 1/4 inch in arbor width for most reels IMHO.

For purely freshwater fishing in the vast majority of situations, most of the corrosion issues are not going to manifest, and following Galloup's advice could be fine.  But for saltwater fishing, I am not in agreement.  I personally would still avoid "maintenance free"/sealed reels for freshwater.  Plain bearings (AKA bushings) are better than ball bearings.

My take for saltwater:  Get a reel without a one way bearing if possible.  Avoid sealed reels unless you need the protection from sand getting in the reel when beach fishing or wading.  If you get a sealed reel, get one that is designed to opened up for maintenance by the customer, and consider picking up a backup one way bearing.   Plain bearings (AKA bushings) are better than ball bearings. A larger arbor is important for winding, but avoid ultralight "squirrel cage" reels.  Just go up a size if you want a larger arbor. Agree with Galloup that a little extra weight is not noticeable.  Smooth is more important than powerful when it comes to drag, but a stronger drag is really nice to have, and becomes critical when you get into larger species.   Just letting them run is not a viable strategy for many species.  While pretty much all saltwater fly reel knobs suck, try to find a knob that is not terrible for winding under load, but still allows you to slide your fingers off quickly for when a fish takes line at high speeds so you don't break a finger.  There are a few good saltwater fly reels at medium to high price points, and lots of reels that don't hold up well at all price points.  Price does not guaranty quality.    Conventional or spinning reel makers that get into the fly reel business usually know how to make a reel that is mechanically capable, but often get critical dimensions or features wrong.  

YMMV,

-J