alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Doesn't Make sense - Gear shaft stuck in housing
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
August 10, 2020, 10:14:55 AM *
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Author Topic: Doesn't Make sense - Gear shaft stuck in housing  (Read 460 times)
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Brandon G
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« on: July 03, 2020, 04:35:16 PM »

Hello,

The main gear is stuck in the housing. The damn thing turns and taps back and forth in the slot, but it is like there is a pin or bar blocking it from coming out. I don't understand.

I had this first happen on a 712z, which is soaking in gasoline right now, just bought this 710 is spins and is great, but taking it apart the gear doesn't come out.

Is this a certain version of the reel where this isn't removable? Any tips?
I have tried prying, smacking, tapping, wiggling, soaking, praying, crying, now i'm asking for help.

PLEASSSEEE

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foakes
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2020, 05:07:43 PM »

There is no keeper or "C" clip holding the main gear in the housing, Brandon --

Since it is turning, and there is a little back and forth movement -- it could be a burr on the crank washer, or on one of the brass bushings.

But since it is spinning OK -- and there is a little in-in-out movement -- I would suspect that the needle oiler orifice has been jammed into the oiler groove in the middle of the crank axle.

Best,

Fred


* 2B0148D7-34FC-400B-AEC0-B1A3D9BF974E.jpeg (248.53 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 26 times.)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 05:08:27 PM by foakes » Logged

Self-worth is how you value yourself. It’s not based on what others think of you or the things you have (or haven’t) accomplished—it comes from within. But it’s easy to forget that our worth isn’t determined by outside forces -- each of us sets our own price.

In life, be flexible, willing to listen to others, willing to change your mind based on your good judgement -- that is how progress is made, and new horizons are discovered.  When the winds of change blow -- A flexible limb moves and thrives -- a stiff and stubborn limb just snaps.
wfjord
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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2020, 07:02:38 PM »

Out of curiosity I looked at one of my 710s and 712s and other than the possibilities Fred suggested, there is absolutely nothing that keeps the main gear from dropping out after unscrewing the oscillating arm --unless, of course, you didn't remove the handle first.

Edit:
Just a thought... could there be any chance you might be mistaking the stainless steel pinion gear for the bronze main gear?  The pinion is the one that's usually hard to remove as the bearing holding it in is usually stuck and needs to be tapped out first.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 03:45:19 AM by wfjord » Logged
Brandon G
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« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2020, 04:19:59 AM »

There is no keeper or "C" clip holding the main gear in the housing, Brandon --

Since it is turning, and there is a little back and forth movement -- it could be a burr on the crank washer, or on one of the brass bushings.

But since it is spinning OK -- and there is a little in-in-out movement -- I would suspect that the needle oiler orifice has been jammed into the oiler groove in the middle of the crank axle.

Best,

Fred
That must be it as it feels like it is blocked, not stuck.
I've taken apart a couple other 712z and the such, never ran into this until these two back to back. 




Out of curiosity I looked at one of my 710s and 712s and other than the possibilities Fred suggested, there is absolutely nothing that keeps the main gear from dropping out after unscrewing the oscillating arm --unless, of course, you didn't remove the handle first.

Edit:
Just a thought... could there be any chance you might be mistaking the stainless steel pinion gear for the bronze main gear?  The pinion is the one that's usually hard to remove as the bearing holding it in is usually stuck and needs to be tapped out first.
Nope, definitely the main gear.  I know nothing is supposed to be there, but there is haha


Any ideas on how to get it out? The oil plug on the spinning gear's housing goes in and out easily, the other... not so much.
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Brandon G
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2020, 04:24:44 AM »

Here is a picture of the reel opened and stripped down besides the dog, which isnt the cause. I have removed it and it doesnt matter, just really hard to get back in with gear there.



* 20200703_170759.jpg (2481.12 KB, 4032x1816 - viewed 20 times.)
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foakes
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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2020, 08:22:51 AM »

Basically, if it were my reel, the gear needs to come out, Brandon --

Sort of like triage on the battlefield -- we either deal with the results of doing something -- or deal with the results of doing nothing.

One is generally better than the other.

Gear axle shaft is either caught on a bad bushing, or the oil port -- most likely.

The gear can be pressed out with a hydraulic press -- or tapped out with a hammer.

In either case -- the frame needs solid support on wood, the attachment threads on the axle need to be protected with a nut or another chunk of hardwood.

Once you get it out -- things can be inspected, cleaned, burnished, relubed.

The brass bushings can easily be smoothed out, if needed.  And, a tiny screw can always take the place of the oil port, if needed.  

You will likely find out that there was just one tiny issue holding the axle in place.

Best,

Fred


* AD705415-E2E7-4D5E-965B-646906C412E3.jpeg (292.63 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 36 times.)

* 87B8D1B8-77E1-4937-82F1-FDEDAFA9217B.jpeg (351.97 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 38 times.)

* CE38BE57-1B7F-4943-B5EC-C737DFA96BC8.jpeg (365.83 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 37 times.)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 08:26:04 AM by foakes » Logged

Self-worth is how you value yourself. It’s not based on what others think of you or the things you have (or haven’t) accomplished—it comes from within. But it’s easy to forget that our worth isn’t determined by outside forces -- each of us sets our own price.

In life, be flexible, willing to listen to others, willing to change your mind based on your good judgement -- that is how progress is made, and new horizons are discovered.  When the winds of change blow -- A flexible limb moves and thrives -- a stiff and stubborn limb just snaps.
Brandon G
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2020, 12:16:19 PM »

Basically, if it were my reel, the gear needs to come out, Brandon --

Sort of like triage on the battlefield -- we either deal with the results of doing something -- or deal with the results of doing nothing.

One is generally better than the other.

Gear axle shaft is either caught on a bad bushing, or the oil port -- most likely.

The gear can be pressed out with a hydraulic press -- or tapped out with a hammer.

In either case -- the frame needs solid support on wood, the attachment threads on the axle need to be protected with a nut or another chunk of hardwood.

Once you get it out -- things can be inspected, cleaned, burnished, relubed.

The brass bushings can easily be smoothed out, if needed.  And, a tiny screw can always take the place of the oil port, if needed.  

You will likely find out that there was just one tiny issue holding the axle in place.

Best,

Fred

Well, I don't have a press handy, and I have smacked the crap out of the other one with a hammer, starting lightly, then progressing to 'making it my ####', but still I came out the loser.
I'm not going to give up... but if it comes down to it, I have a dremel and I will slice it open to see what the issue is....  muwahaha

Most likely I am going to drill the port and see if that helps.

Is there anyway to get a replacement port, or are those insert during molding?
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foakes
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2020, 12:59:26 PM »

Oil ports just press in after the manufacturing and painting process.

Penn does not offer these separately -- but they are available from other online sources.

I have the gear -- do not have the oil port.

The oil port can be removed with a pick and a dull old pocket knife.

Best,

Fred
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Self-worth is how you value yourself. It’s not based on what others think of you or the things you have (or haven’t) accomplished—it comes from within. But it’s easy to forget that our worth isn’t determined by outside forces -- each of us sets our own price.

In life, be flexible, willing to listen to others, willing to change your mind based on your good judgement -- that is how progress is made, and new horizons are discovered.  When the winds of change blow -- A flexible limb moves and thrives -- a stiff and stubborn limb just snaps.
Brandon G
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Posts: 136



« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2020, 01:16:54 PM »

Oil ports just press in after the manufacturing and painting process.

Penn does not offer these separately -- but they are available from other online sources.

I have the gear -- do not have the oil port.

The oil port can be removed with a pick and a dull old pocket knife.

Best,

Fred
Well, my wife is calling me to go out for the plans with the family, but if I'm not too drunk getting back, I'm gonna fiddle with this more.
I have some big rare earth magnets I'm going to try to see if it will pull the pin back. That area on the reel is magnetic so I assume the pin is as well. Hopefully 500lb pull works because the 60lb didn't ..

If not i'm gonna be doing some surgery. I'll take pictures as I go along to document this process and to help you guys help me when I get stuck inevitably... hahaha
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handi2
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2020, 12:03:09 PM »

You may need to file down the shaft that exits the housing. Right one the end of the shaft close to the threads.

Keith
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Gulf Breeze, FL
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