Mono or Braid - Suggestions?

nelz · July 28, 2020, 03:58:37 PM

So what's the purpose of using Dacron as a backing? It seems to me like just more braid under the braid, guess I'm missing something...

thorhammer · July 28, 2020, 04:31:32 PM

dyneema is much thinner.

OP- I use 309 a lot for different things. Someone mentioned using a 9 instead; well, you have a 309 and not a 9, and a 9 isn't going to be fast or powerful pulling lead and fish up from 100 feet or more. The 309 has jigmaster size main gear and much larger spool diameter so even advertised abiut same retrieve ratio, is going to be a lot faster with a whole lot more drag than a 9. In many ways it's a perfect bottom reel for what you are doing- youa rent worried about blistering runs harming levelwind, and you can focus on cranking the fish not leveling line. What I would do is fill spool about 2/3 with mono, then double uni knot to your braid and see if that gets you close to full spool. If you want more, pull off the braid in the grass, 150yds is easy, add more mono, and rewind braid- attaching a weight of some sort to wind it on tightly, and the levelwind will also line lay to prevent dig-in. At the terminal end double uni onto 50 or 60 lb mono or fluoro shock leader for replaceable abrasion resistance. It will be less visible, and you will still minimize stretch and utilize braid sensitivity. Make sure your knots are tight and tapered to fit through level wind. This setup is how we rig Senators, maybe with different line weight, but same concept for bottom bouncing grouper and snapper in 100-150ft of water. We just don't need 500 yds of braid on there to go straight up and down 50 yards. It works very well, and we also use Penn 9500SS for jigging the same way, so you could set up the Fierce with some mono backing, whatever gets you to within 1/8" of spool lip with the braid on top, then ten feet of mono shock leader. I use this exactly for both jigging and surf fishing with lighter gear- I can throw long but 150 yds is usually plenty for casting on 9-10 rod and certainly for up-and-down boat jigging. This is all my own opinion and experience, but I'm trying to get you going with the reels and line you have in hand since you don't get out all too often and maybe spending more dough isn't a good investment. As others stated- that braid will last you some years, I keep reels mainly out of light, but you are good for a long while of codfishing with a change of the short tops shot as needed.

thorhammer · July 28, 2020, 04:36:16 PM

add: double the braid with surgeon loop before uni.

oc1 · July 28, 2020, 07:05:21 PM

Quote from: nelz on July 28, 2020, 03:58:37 PM
So what's the purpose of using Dacron as a backing? It seems to me like just more braid under the braid, guess I'm missing something...

Yeah. Mono needs a dacron backing because it stretches so much and if wound tight would warp the spool. Dacron backing under braid is just to take up space because the reel is larger than it needs to be.
-steve

nelz · July 28, 2020, 08:25:23 PM

Quote from: oc1 on July 28, 2020, 07:05:21 PMYeah. Mono needs a dacron backing because it stretches so much and if wound tight would warp the spool. Dacron backing under braid is just to take up space because the reel is larger than it needs to be.

Yeah, I meant using dacron under the braid. But I'd rather put mono under the braid, helps keep a tight grip on the spool in addition to filling up space.

Keta · July 28, 2020, 11:07:06 PM

Dacron grips too and does not compress.

Brewcrafter · July 29, 2020, 04:16:19 AM

Quote
Quote from: nelz on July 28, 2020, 03:58:37 PM
So what's the purpose of using Dacron as a backing? It seems to me like just more braid under the braid, guess I'm missing something...

And the truth is, plain "old school" Dacron is usually a lot cheaper than newer "Spectra/Dyneema" type braids. So as a backing it is effective and cost efficient. And honestly as a fishing line it has it's place - my shallow water bottom fishing/halibut rigs have Izorline Green on them, partially because I'm old school but then if I am putting 5 miles of modern line on my Long Beach 68 that also doesn't make sense...-john

oc1 · July 29, 2020, 05:50:52 AM

Using straight dacron is a real pleasure if the situation allows. It has no abrasion resistance, but no stretch and the best "hand" of all fishing lines. Hand is the feel of it as it runs through your hand. It has the sensitivity of spectra, but the large diameter will take up a lot of space and catch the current if dropping.
-steve

Brewcrafter · July 29, 2020, 06:20:30 AM

Steve summed up what I was trying to say better than I could ever say it... - john

Ontherock · July 29, 2020, 08:52:46 PM

Quote from: thorhammer on July 28, 2020, 04:31:32 PM
dyneema is much thinner.

OP- I use 309 a lot for different things. Someone mentioned using a 9 instead; well, you have a 309 and not a 9, and a 9 isn't going to be fast or powerful pulling lead and fish up from 100 feet or more. The 309 has jigmaster size main gear and much larger spool diameter so even advertised abiut same retrieve ratio, is going to be a lot faster with a whole lot more drag than a 9. In many ways it's a perfect bottom reel for what you are doing- youa rent worried about blistering runs harming levelwind, and you can focus on cranking the fish not leveling line. What I would do is fill spool about 2/3 with mono, then double uni knot to your braid and see if that gets you close to full spool. If you want more, pull off the braid in the grass, 150yds is easy, add more mono, and rewind braid- attaching a weight of some sort to wind it on tightly, and the levelwind will also line lay to prevent dig-in. At the terminal end double uni onto 50 or 60 lb mono or fluoro shock leader for replaceable abrasion resistance. It will be less visible, and you will still minimize stretch and utilize braid sensitivity. Make sure your knots are tight and tapered to fit through level wind. This setup is how we rig Senators, maybe with different line weight, but same concept for bottom bouncing grouper and snapper in 100-150ft of water. We just don't need 500 yds of braid on there to go straight up and down 50 yards. It works very well, and we also use Penn 9500SS for jigging the same way, so you could set up the Fierce with some mono backing, whatever gets you to within 1/8" of spool lip with the braid on top, then ten feet of mono shock leader. I use this exactly for both jigging and surf fishing with lighter gear- I can throw long but 150 yds is usually plenty for casting on 9-10 rod and certainly for up-and-down boat jigging. This is all my own opinion and experience, but I'm trying to get you going with the reels and line you have in hand since you don't get out all too often and maybe spending more dough isn't a good investment. As others stated- that braid will last you some years, I keep reels mainly out of light, but you are good for a long while of codfishing with a change of the short tops shot as needed.

Thanks Thorhammer - this is the info I was looking for!
I've never used braid before and wanted to give it a try for kicks but didn't want to spend a lot for what is basically an experiment.

Ontherock · July 29, 2020, 08:54:53 PM

Thanks to everyone else for their suggestions as well!
Lot of great info to chew on!

Keta · July 30, 2020, 12:39:04 PM

Pre Spectra I used Dacron on all of my bottom fishing reels and a few trolling reels due to low line stretch, Dacron does stretch more than Spectra but far less than mono. It was easy for me to switch to Spectra. Today all of my reels have Spectra, bottom fishing ana flylining reels with short topshots (10'-20') of fluro/mono and trolling reels with 200' of mono, the ones I use on downriggers have 20'-30' fluro topshots. My steelhead and kokanee reels have 10' fluro topshots on top of 20 or 30 pound Spectra, most of the rest of my reels have 60/65 pound Spectra and up to 200#..

thorhammer · July 30, 2020, 12:47:37 PM

The beauty of this site is you get glean from global experience- Steve is in Hi, Lee in PNW, I'm in NC, etc etc, and we all fish for different things in different ways, so what happens is you get a good look at different ways to skin a cat, and maybe you take away a bit of each to skin yours the best way for you. Dacron certainly has it's applications and I use it for various things where it works best for me- backing, planer and kite lines. I have all intents to put some on an old Squidder and sling it with the vintage Harnell it's on. I only specified mono as 1) you have mono on reel and maybe there's enough already and 2) you can usually get a cheap spool of mono for backing readily; dacron is not as cheap or readily available for, as you say, experimenting.

Let us know what you come up with, and how it works- preferably with a cod!

John

thorhammer · July 30, 2020, 12:55:37 PM

hey Lee, when you say 200 ft on trolling reels, is that for your offshore? you mention fluoro topshot on downrigger reel, is that directly to braid or to a mono topper on top of braid? I've been on the fence about braid use on my downrigger rigs- certainly would have a mono topper and would like your opinion. Trolling for stripers where I am is very similar to salmon- spoons and jigs, and lately Alabama rigs. I usually run 20 mono on Daiwa SL 47's or 310/320GTi's.

I did switch from cable to 200lb PP on the downrigger itself- got rid of the dang humming and no more wire in my hand.

sorry to hijack

Keta · July 30, 2020, 01:57:06 PM

"....when you say 200 ft on trolling reels, is that for your offshore?"

Yes, Spectra wind whips and I have had rods cut off when fish hit with the line around the tip. I use Berkley Solar Collector line so I can see it better.The reels I troll for trout in the extremely shallow Klamath lake have short or no mono/Flouro on them. We fish far back, as far as 100 yards, so the spooked fish settle down before the lure gets to them and mono stretch can be a problem. My Kokanee/makanaw trolling reels have 20' topshots.

"....you mention fluoro topshot on downrigger reel, is that directly to braid or to a mono topper on top of braid?"

I tie it directly to the braid. Spectra tends to slip in my downrigger clips so I clip to the fluoro. Mono works too but the lakes I troll for kokanee in are really clear. I sometimes clip the DR release on the mono/fluoro at the knot to eliminate slippage. Try braid on one of your downrigger rods and see if it works for you.

200# Spectra is much better than cable on the downriggers, my Scotty electrics have Spectra on them, the Scotty Strongarm ones I picked up last week still have cable but when it needs to be replaced it will be with JB hollow 200#. BTW, I put both pairs of downriggers on my "new" 16' boat to see if I can fish them and eliminate stacking.