Can carbontex be cut with a laser cutter?

[Mandelstam]

I need to cut out a few washers from a sheet and have access to a laser cutter at work. Is it possible to cut CF with that? 

[Tiddlerbasher]

I don't see why not. Personally I just punch them out with the appropriate size wad punch.
Accuracy is not usually an issue for spinners and star drags.

[Mandelstam]

I've looked for punches and the sets I've found are really expensive. Like $200 for a set of 2-30mm. Or like 5-10 bucks a piece.

[Mandelstam]

When asking Google it replies like this:

"Can you cut carbon fiber with a laser?
Do not use a laser cutter as it will not work any carbon fiber. The laser melts the epoxy much faster than it can have an impact on the carbon fibers. This results in a very poor cut line and very few broken fibers."

Ugh... Guess I'd cut it manually then.

[Tiddlerbasher]

I think the article you found is referring to laminated prepreg type materials - carbontex is different. If I had access to a laser cutter I would certainly give it a try - nothing to loose I guess.
Wad punches do not have to be that expensive - and think long term about how many washers you will eventually cut. If you only need a few buy them ready made from Dawn @ Carbontex or Russ @ Blackdog.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Maun-1001-05-WAD-Punch-Black/dp/B0001P0E0U/ref=asc_df_B0001P0E0U/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=218092154549&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6849256228467311551&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006774&hvtargid=pla-423287064238&th=1

[oc1]

Someone here made some punches with soft metal.  I think (but am not sure) it was using copper pipe or pipe fittings sharpened on a grinder.  I'll try to find it again.

If you only need a couple of washers then having to re-sharpen often isn't a big deal. 

I just cut them by hand with shears.  If I had access to a laser cutter I wouldn't be wasting time on drag washers when there are so many other cool things it can do.
-steve

[Mandelstam]

Thanks guys!

I might give the laser cutter a try. Otherwise I'll try the compass method and cut them out with that.

[mo65]

Someone here made some punches with soft metal.  I think (but am not sure) it was using copper pipe or pipe fittings sharpened on a grinder. 

   I haven't tried this, but I'm sure it would work fine, and would be very economical.

[jurelometer]

I am not an expert on this stuff, but have had a small amount of firsthand experience.  It is very important to understand the safety aspects before going forward.

If you are using a normal 20-100 watt C02 laser, it won't work.  It might also damage the machine and/or your health.


It s barely possible to cut the plain thin carbon fiber weave without resin,  and you have to cover any viewing window, as the much of laser light gets reflected off of the material.    I used a laser next to a guy that cut carbon fiber business cards this way.   It took a lot of tweaking and was slow going. 0nce the "card" was cut and etched, he would coat with clear resin.

So in addition to being very difficult (probably impossible) to get the laser to burn all the way through all that thick weave there is also the resin core.   The laser will vaporize this, creating gasses.  Some common materials (e.g. PVC, polycarbonate) produces gasses that will damage the laser, and also possibly your health, depending on how the laser is sealed and vented.  Also, certain materials can combust.  You could end up with a fire, or some sort of gooey flaming  napalmish substance dripping down from the part.

BTW:  C02 lasers are really nice for cutting Delrin/acetal washers if your laser is reasonably strong.  I made a ton of washers, plus some other sheet stock based parts from acetal sheets.

Bottom line is that you do not want to try cutting anything with a laser without knowing for certain that the chemical composition of the material is compatible.  If something goes wrong,  you can damage more than the part.

There are different laser technologies out there,  so perhaps it is possible with the right equipment.

Other options -  water jet probably will not work.  Some of the deflected water goes sideways, probably leading to some delamination.

Router- CNC or hand router with a pattern and a pattern or flush trim bit.  This can work, but you have to understand the safety practices unique to carbon fiber.  The dust is highly conductive, so if enough of it gets into a motor or electronics, you can get a short or even a fire.  The dust is probably a health risk for the lungs (shave the beard and wear a respirator with s particulate filter- 3M will tell you which-also goggles that seal around the eyes). The dust will carry an electrostatic charge from cutting, so it will cling to walls, ceilings, etc, making it very hard to clean).  Yo have to read up on the safety practices before going down this route.

I have done a small amount of routing on finished carbon fiber panels, and got very clean cuts.  The dust was very fine, travelled far, and stuck to everything.  Kind of creepy.  I wore a respirator, googles, jumpsuit, HEPA vacuum router attachment, and still did not feel like this was enough.

Punches / knifes, scisdors, etc.  -   Don't know how well these  works, but they should generate less dust than a router.  I would try this first.  The compass method sounds like it is worth a try.

Hope this helps,

-J

[Mandelstam]

I am not an expert on this stuff, but have had a small amount of firsthand experience.  It is very important to understand the safety aspects before going forward.

If you are using a normal 20-100 watt C02 laser, it won't work.  It might also damage the machine and/or your health.


It s barely possible to cut the plain thin carbon fiber weave without resin,  and you have to cover any viewing window, as the much of laser light gets reflected off of the material.    I used a laser next to a guy that cut carbon fiber business cards this way.   It took a lot of tweaking and was slow going. 0nce the "card" was cut and etched, he would coat with clear resin.

So in addition to being very difficult (probably impossible) to get the laser to burn all the way through all that thick weave there is also the resin core.   The laser will vaporize this, creating gasses.  Some common materials (e.g. PVC, polycarbonate) produces gasses that will damage the laser, and also possibly your health, depending on how the laser is sealed and vented.  Also, certain materials can combust.  You could end up with a fire, or some sort of gooey flaming  napalmish substance dripping down from the part.

BTW:  C02 lasers are really nice for cutting Delrin/acetal washers if your laser is reasonably strong.  I made a ton of washers, plus some other sheet stock based parts from acetal sheets.

Bottom line is that you do not want to try cutting anything with a laser without knowing for certain that the chemical composition of the material is compatible.  If something goes wrong,  you can damage more than the part.

There are different laser technologies out there,  so perhaps it is possible with the right equipment.

Other options -  water jet probably will not work.  Some of the deflected water goes sideways, probably leading to some delamination.

Router- CNC or hand router with a pattern and a pattern or flush trim bit.  This can work, but you have to understand the safety practices unique to carbon fiber.  The dust is highly conductive, so if enough of it gets into a motor or electronics, you can get a short or even a fire.  The dust is probably a health risk for the lungs (shave the beard and wear a respirator with s particulate filter- 3M will tell you which-also goggles that seal around the eyes). The dust will carry an electrostatic charge from cutting, so it will cling to walls, ceilings, etc, making it very hard to clean).  Yo have to read up on the safety practices before going down this route.

I have done a small amount of routing on finished carbon fiber panels, and got very clean cuts.  The dust was very fine, travelled far, and stuck to everything.  Kind of creepy.  I wore a respirator, googles, jumpsuit, HEPA vacuum router attachment, and still did not feel like this was enough.

Punches / knifes, scisdors, etc.  -   Don't know how well these  works, but they should generate less dust than a router.  I would try this first.  The compass method sounds like it is worth a try.

Hope this helps,

-J

Thank you! Exactly the kind of input I was after. I'm not totally sure what laser we have at work but it's probably co2 and not super high output, it's used to cut materal or architectural models.

I don't really need many washers and I think I'll just stick to manual cutting.

[Tiddlerbasher]

Thanks for the info Dave, very interesting.

[Donnyboat]

I cut all mine, by compass method, works good, mind you I would only cut a set every two months, cheers Don.

[philaroman]

is it a must to have a perfect circle?
I have some older, smaller spinner 6-stacks residing in comparatively spacious drag wells
I'm thinking I could get away with clean straight-cut octagons,
and the corners that stick out would not touch the sides

[Mandelstam]

is it a must to have a perfect circle?
I have some older, smaller spinner 6-stacks residing in comparatively spacious drag wells
I'm thinking I could get away with clean straight-cut octagons,
and the corners that stick out would not touch the sides

Now I haven't actually tried the compass method yet but from what I've seem it looks pretty easy and you also get perfectly concentric hole and outer circle as you use the same center point.

[philaroman]

compass?  I've been crying about that thing being my calipers, since the vernier's got "borrowed"
now, I learn it's a multi-tool -- WOOHOO!!!