Do not overlook "regular" maintenance. I couldn't believe it. Jigmaster rust.

Started by JoseCuervo, September 20, 2020, 06:32:28 AM

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JoseCuervo

As the season was winding down and I had some free time on my hands, I popped open my workhorse Jigmaster to upgrade the sleeve and dog to SS.

I built this a year or so ago. It has probably 10 one day trips on the water. Warm fresh water rinses at days end religiously. It had the usual Tani treatment, light grease everywhere, carbon fiber drags with Cal's grease, etc.

Imagine my surprise seeing the below. It still turned as smooth (like butter) as the day I assembled it.

The drags are dry as a bone. It caught some nice fish (salmon and cod) and had a blazing fast 30 second couple/few hundred yard run from something big early in the season Dave and I are still mystified over on, it spit the hook. The grease was not Yamaha or Penn, but a high pressure marine wheel bearing grease. Still, I am very surprised here.

I am now thinking only a trip or two before a good lookover. Don't think "it has only been a year and all is well". I thought that too. Get into those reels more often than you think you need to.

PS, does anyone know why it is soo hard to find a pound of Penn grease? Maybe the shanghai shivers has people doing more maintenance than normal, and maybe a slowdown at the factory as well. I might have to go to Alan's and beg for a tube of Yamalube. Check out the price of 2oz on the auction site if you don't believe me. Everything is United Kingdom it looks like and nutz pricing, 2oz only no pounders. I tried Mystic.

Also, what is a good safe degreaser for anodized plates? It looks dry in the gear well, but that was also well greased as were those gears. That is sticky rusty grease. It must have been hotter in there than I would have believed possible. I am not sure I want to start with kerosene, my usual go to for metal. This is my first time with anodized aluminum plates.

Thanks

Rob







Bryan Young

Kerosine will be fine as a degreaser in anodized aluminum parts.

I just searched for some other grease as well. All greases are crazy priced at the moment. Maybe production is down everywhere.

I keep forgetting that I need to stock up on my go-to greases as I'm running low.

Happy rebuilding.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

RowdyW

Rob, it looks like it's time to switch grease brand. That grease doesn't look like it can handle the job even if the label says marine grease. Penn blue grease is available from Mystic & Yamaha marine blue grease is available at most Yamaha motorcycle, marine, or boat dealers.        Rudy

Maxed Out

 This is why I choose not to use garden hose to rinse off my reels. The salt just gets pushed inside. In this case it looks like the gap around the gear sleeve is where the intrusion happened. I've seen exact same results on other reels that get hosed off after each use. A spray bottle with diluted salt away is what all the local charters use on thier reels
We Must Never Forget Our Veterans....God Bless Them All !!

El Pescador

Rob!

Dang, that rust does not look good!!!

My wife would say, that brand of grease is a Pinterist FAIL!!!!   Throw out that grease.

Next time in Campbell near San Jose, stop by Central Valley Marine - they sell the Yahama Marine Grease in 14 oz. tubes. 

AND post photos of your final clean up project.   We will all thank you.

Wayne
Never let the skinny guys make the sandwiches!!  NEVER!!!!

jurelometer

Regarding "pushing salt" into the reel with a hose, I don't think that is how the chemistry works.  Saltwater dilutes  rapidly when in contact with moving fresh water, and even salt crystals will dissolve fairly rapidly.  So you end up with highly diluted water, which is not too much of a risk.  It is pretty hard to move much salt from the outside of the reel to the inside by turning a hose on it.

Having said that, trying to desalt  the inside of a reel with a hose or shower, is not such a great idea IMHO.

To get salt based corrosion, you need a salt, metal, and moisture. A combination of metals that are not close on the galvanic tables (like stainless or carbon steel and aluminum) makes matters worse.

If a little bit of salt gets into the reel and dries out, the corrosion is going to be slower and more localized.  Turning the hose on the reel introduces more water, meaning that the innards could retain moisure longer, extending the period of more active corrosion. It could also spread the salt around and make the corrosion less severe, but also less localized.

The first step is to keep internal surfaces fully coated with grease, so that the salt cannot reach it.

In terms of cleaning/rinsing after saltwater use:

1.  Water is THE solvent for salt.  If you want to get rid of salt, you must add fresh water. The more water, the more diluted the salt.  Remove most of the water, and any remaining water holds  much less salt.  It does not take much fresh water to dilute the salt down to where it is no longer an issue.   If you start out with a teaspoon of seawater with  3% salt  inside your reel, and you end up with a teaspoon of diluted water with  0.03 %...

IMHO, The  worst thing to do is to introduce an  extra little shot of water into to reel that stays inside the reel.  I agree with Maxed Out on that. The point of putting water into the reel is to use it to carry some salt out.  If the added water stays in the reel,  you are just increasing moisture.

I am a firm believer in soaking most  saltwater reels in a bucket of freshwater, and then thoroughly air drying. But if you are not going to soak and dry, my guess is that you are probably best off trying to keep the innards as dry as possible while  rinsing the external surfaces.

2. There is a thread somewhere on salt-away and similar products.   Could not find much on how these products actually work,  but here is what I could find:  I don't  think that these products do anything for salt solubility. The benefit comes from increased surface tension that allows the water to cling longer to vertical surfaces, allowing the water to do its job.  You mix the stuff with water, and the water dilutes the salt, and carries it out, just like normal.  The other benefit from these products is the residue left behind that acts as a protective coating that helps prevent corrosion.  An external wipedown with salt-away on  an aluminum reel may not be a bad idea.  

Using  a desalting product probably doesn't  have much effect on  the amount of freshwater that you need to pass through the inside of the reel to get out the same amount of salt.

I don't personally use the custom aluminum sideplates on Penn reels any more due to the extra maintenance required to prevent corrosion.  These reels do not drain well (not the fault of the sideplate makers), and there are a lot of mixed metals involved.   I would still try soaking, but not sure if it is the best answer.   Either way,  maybe back off the drag all the way and store with the handle shaft hole pointing down?

-J.

foakes

This is my procedure, Rob --

Most of us who have done reel maintenance for a while -- for ourselves or others -- will likely agree that WD-40 is a poor lubricant for long term protection -- compared to Penn, Cal's, or Yamaha Marine grease.

But, WD-40 is an excellent cleaner and puts a fine protective surface film on our reels.

However, the most important aspect is what WD-40 stands for -- and what it does -- it displaces water.

″Water Displacement, 40th formula"

It was developed for the fledgling Aerospace program in the 50's -- as a water displacer, cleaner, and protective lubricant for primarily the Atlas booster rockets as they set on the launchpads for varying weeks prior to launch.

This was the 40th attempt by the small company to come up with a successful formula.

First, I use a liberal amount of Marine grease on the insides to include gears, jacks, yokes, bearings, springs, inner sides of the spools and rings, as well as under the rings, and all screws.

Second, after fishing, just let water run gently over the reel with NO PRESSURE so as to not force salt into the casing.

Third, wipe down the reel with a towel.

Fourth, spray the exterior of the reel with WD-40 -- and the interior, as possible, using the straw spray attachment into any cracks or openings.  Lightly wipe down the reel exterior.

That's it.

This will clean and protect the reel during the season -- until it is time for an annual service.

Simple and effective.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

JoseCuervo

Thanks for all of the comments.

The fresh water rinse is in the shower, more of a light hot rain over the rod and reel with no pressure. It has taken the usual saltwater bath when running back to port from bow spray quite a few times, I think that was basically the cause of my troubles.

I am looking to score a pound of the Penn grease. Grease is messy enough in a tub, tubes are even worse I'd imagine when not just popping them into a gun.

Mystic is out of stock on it though.. https://www.mysticparts.com/LubesCleaners/Penn/1LBGSE.aspx It sounds like they may have been out for a month, or more, based on an email check with Maureen. She can't get any from Penn and no date for more.

I placed an order with Penn directly, we will see if that actually ships. My card was authorized I am sure as a default for any order, time will tell if they have it.

I am going to play it by ear. I am ordering Bryan's drag kit from Mystic so this isn't going back together right away. Things cleaned up fairly nicely. The plate still needs a bit more work, until I have more parts I didn't want to tinker with the eccentric so it hasn't had a kerosene soak, just a bit of toothbrush scrubbing. That eared washer has a strange look to it (and the ears are ever so slightly bent) and since the undergear Delrin washer I used doesn't look good, I am OK with waiting for the kit and will change over to a carbon fiber UG washer that is included. I am going to stay with the steel gears for now, maybe I'll splurge for the SS set later.

Does anyone know the part number for that Jesus clip holding the dog onto the bridge pin? It isn't on the schematic. I am pretty sure this is a USA Jiggy for all intents and purposes as I have had the guts since way before they were made in China, unless I am mixed up. The Lord knows I have bought lots of reels and many on eBay so anything is possible. Since we know what can happen to dog springs I want a spare of that as well.

Thanks

Rob





Dominick

I don't remember a clip holding the dog.  Someone must have rigged something up.  Dominick
Leave the gun.  Take the cannolis.

There are two things I don't like about fishing.  Getting up early in the morning and boats.  The rest of it is fun.

foakes

That is just a standard "E" clip.

You can buy just one in SS at the hardware store.

Or you can buy a few hundred assorted for just a few bucks on Amazon or from Harbor Freight.

Really nice clean up job!

Best, Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

JoseCuervo

Quote from: Dominick on September 20, 2020, 11:38:08 PM
I don't remember a clip holding the dog.  Someone must have rigged something up.  Dominick

I am not sure what the story is exactly. I think this was a 500S, but it is still not on the schematic. Mike posted a pic of that setup previously as well. I didn't use the red spool but have it and the plates.

https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=27627.0



Another pic from another thread. https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=8747.0


broadway

   Lots of great tips here.   I was the advocate for "sallt away" with a light hosing using the mixing unit.  I never had internal corrosion from this method. It does leave a film (you can't feel or see) on and inside the reel so the salt won't get to your metals. A boeshiled wipe down with a rag soaked in it left  in a ziploc, as Dominick has taught us and put her away.
The Salt Away is great to keep your line supple as well.
Best,
Dom
PM me...I will look around as I may have a lb. of Penn grease I would sell you for what I paid for it (pre-pandemic)

sabaman1

Wow that cleaned up nice! How were you able to get the brass drag washers so nice?
JIM

JoseCuervo

Quote from: sabaman1 on September 21, 2020, 05:12:41 AM
Wow that cleaned up nice! How were you able to get the brass drag washers so nice?

All of the internal metals just sat in a tuna tin of kerosene over night. A light scrub with a toothbrush is all the gears took, those washers didn't need any scrubbing.

thorhammer

if you have moly steel main, those for sure are pre-China: the S as a whole was made early 70's and IMO has best internals of the 500 reels (steel main, chrome plated bits, etc.).  I think a DD bridge and SS sleeve as upgrades before I buy a SS main- I've never had an issue with stock steel mains even in my Cortez  builds, and the frame probably becomes weak link after the sleeve.