alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial 2019 Certate LT 4000D-C in for repair
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
October 22, 2020, 12:17:07 PM *
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Author Topic: 2019 Certate LT 4000D-C in for repair  (Read 566 times)
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JasonGotaPenn
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« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2020, 02:36:43 AM »

Ok so it's a steaming pile of crap. Will remember for the future. Thank you. I've seen a few pop up used, I'm glad I never pounced.

No but seriously. I did not expect to see aluminum and freaking nylon gearing inside a $300+ reel. I am so very confused and a little bit upset. No wonder you needed a special tool to open it. They clearly had something to hide.

..and I forgot to mention that the nylon gear is probably the engineered fuse point; I suspect this reel was used in an attempt to winch a GT out from under a bommie!  It is the only way that I can see you stripping it, and it may have saved the main gear/pinion gear/body from damage, the gear is only a $3 part.
So it's a $3 part designed to fail (as opposed to letting another non $3 part fail) but it's behind a plate you need a very special tool to remove? Service trap. This keeps getting worse.
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philaroman
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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2020, 06:49:07 AM »

so, what...  the plastic oscillation gear is like a sacrificial anode -- it dies, so other better parts don't?
I ain't buyin' it...  like Jason said, it's not accessible & most anglers are not as sophisticated as this Forum,
wouldn't notice or care about oscillation disruptions w/ "FISH ON"...  just keep crankin' (harder, if anything) until it was too late
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nelz
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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2020, 10:11:40 AM »

The Certates' main selling point has always been that it's supposed to have a buttery smooth retrieve. I was thinking the nylon gear was for furthering that feature.

I've been wanting to pick up a nice older Certate at a bargain price for a long time now, but it just ain't happenin'!
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JasonGotaPenn
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« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2020, 10:26:17 AM »

The Certates' main selling point has always been that it's supposed to have a buttery smooth retrieve. I was thinking the nylon gear was for furthering that feature.

I've been wanting to pick up a nice older Certate at a bargain price for a long time now, but it just ain't happenin'!
Have you played with a BG? Like buttered silk for $100. No special tools needed.
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philaroman
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« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2020, 11:42:47 AM »

The Certates' main selling point has always been that it's supposed to have a buttery smooth retrieve. I was thinking the nylon gear was for furthering that feature.

I've been wanting to pick up a nice older Certate at a bargain price for a long time now, but it just ain't happenin'!
Have you played with a BG? Like buttered silk for $100. No special tools needed.

well, the proper Japanese way to accomplish buttery smoothness USED to be
mostly-SS worm oscillation working straight off the pinion w/ zero main-gear involvement...
not only smoother, but slightly less work(wear?) for the ephemeral alloy main
(plenty shidaiwas like that were offered in the $100-$200 MSRP ballpark)
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ReelClean
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« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2020, 12:55:44 PM »

The Certates' main selling point has always been that it's supposed to have a buttery smooth retrieve. I was thinking the nylon gear was for furthering that feature.

I've been wanting to pick up a nice older Certate at a bargain price for a long time now, but it just ain't happenin'!

The buttery smoothness is in a large part due to the light (and lack of) grease in the body.  That silky feel disappears when the salt starts to eat away the maingear and pinion.  They are not buttery smooth after I am done, but it is unlikely salt will get to the metal gears.  
I have also noticed that the sideplates are ridiculously tight for a light reel, and wonder whether they use preload on the maingear to get it "just right' rather than have to stuff around trying to shim them.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 07:08:46 PM by ReelClean » Logged

Specialist Daiwa reel service, including Magseal.
ReelClean
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« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2020, 03:37:33 PM »

The Certates' main selling point has always been that it's supposed to have a buttery smooth retrieve. I was thinking the nylon gear was for furthering that feature.

I've been wanting to pick up a nice older Certate at a bargain price for a long time now, but it just ain't happenin'!
Have you played with a BG? Like buttered silk for $100. No special tools needed.

well, the proper Japanese way to accomplish buttery smoothness USED to be
mostly-SS worm oscillation working straight off the pinion w/ zero main-gear involvement...
not only smoother, but slightly less work(wear?) for the ephemeral alloy main
(plenty shidaiwas like that were offered in the $100-$200 MSRP ballpark)



It doesn't work directly off the main gear, but another cog concentric on the drive shaft.  The drive on both the cam and worm drive oscillation is the same, just one is driven off pinion shaft and the other off maingear shaft.  I actually prefer the cam drive oscillation for long term wear resistance, the worm and pawl wear over time and you end up with longtitudal play in the pinion shaft (which is already a complaint people have about new Shimano reels, it doesn't get better with use).  In the end it probably comes down to the quality of materials and machining as the manufacturers continue their search for every .01c of extra profit.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 10:57:12 PM by ReelClean » Logged

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nelz
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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2020, 06:24:03 PM »

Nowadays even cheap reels are pretty smooth out of the box. How long they'll stay that way...  Huh?
Anyway, as I recall, the older Certates featured "vibration dampers" in their design. I've never had or handled one, so I can't say how effective that was, but I was sold on the concept, just never did acquire one.

I do however, happen to own a first gen Daiwa Sol which is so smooth and easy turning that the handle sometimes flies out of my hand just from the forward inertia! The thinnest of shims made a world of difference.

I love the monocoque body on these new gen spinners, but they should come with the special tools for servicing. The magseal however is a deal breaker for me.
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