4/0 size level drag reel question

[alantani]

this is basically a dead lift with 18 pounds.  two extra pounds would be no problem. 

meet ed watson.  he fishes all over the world.  he likes fishing the salt for bigger fish and needs gear that offers him every possible mechanical advantage.  his next trip is to the great barrier reef.  on his last trip, he hooked in a yellowfin tuna from a skiff and he landed it with his boss two speed accurate.  it was tough for him because the skiff did not have a rail and the reel did not have lugs. 



right now he is pulling against a trailer hitch with my makaira 10, 65 pound spectra and 18 pounds at strike. 



i asked him to try to turn the handle in high gear and he could not do it.  this is with an 18# drag setting.  but when i punched the reel into low gear, cranking the 6/0 kolekar handle was no problem.  that's an 18 pound drag setting and a 2.1:1 gear ratio.  the makaira offers ed a lower gear ratio than other reels.  it's basically a granny gear and that helps him.  it also has lugs.  this will allow ed to harness in at the beginning of the fight.  when the fish is straight up and down, he can pop the reel out of the harness and still have some strength left.  and ed likes the big handle grips.  it greatly decreases the fatigue factor during a long fight. 



i did a quick check of retail prices and the bx2-500 is $585 at charkbait.  the makaira 10 retails at $440.  for a guy like ed, the makaira and nomad combo offers significant advantages.  i'm going to send one of these with him on his trip so that he can check it out before he buys.  sounds like he's going to buy one anyway.  it's a great 50# rig. all we need now is a narrowed makaira 8 II for 50# spectra and a 40# topshot.  alan

[boghy]

So, so far Makaira 10 is one confirmed option.
Any other reel(s) out there that can be confirmed to generate the 20lb cranking power for the 4/0 size or less?

[Alto Mare]

I believe that the most accurate test here would be to lift a dead weight of 20lb by cranking the hanle only, with a 4/0. No trailers no scales and no water, as boghy mentioned. Mr Watson looks like a healty young man, BUT, I don't believe that he could lift 20lb of dead waight just by cranking the handle. I'm pretty confidend that I could do it, I've been doing manual labor for over 35 years and have enough upper body strength to do the test. Although I have more confidence in my old Penn ( the 4/0 that I customized ) than the Makaira, I will not put it to that test, but someone could send me the Makaira . I'm not questioning anyone here or saying that it can't be done. If someone can do it AS EXPLAINED ABOVE,  I would like to see it. Sal

[Inspiro]

Dear Boghy, sorry I did not mean to interfere with your topic
Dear Keta, I raise my hat for you man, this is the trus fisherman will to defy anything that gets btween him and his hobby

Back to topic
I am suspicious that the Baja special with the 4.3 ratio can have enough power, what do you think?
Can the regular drag of the 4/0 or 6/0 stop those monster groupers? is there a way to upgrade it?

Inspiro

[Keta]

An Avet EX 4/0 in low gear on a bent butt rod in a rod holder will lift 3 8lb downrigger balls but it is not easy.

[boghy]

If 38lb is hard to lift, 20lb SHOULD be easier, right?

[Keta]

It was three 8 pound downrigger balls, about 24 lbs.

[boghy]

It was three 8 pound downrigger balls, about 24 lbs.

Oh... my bad. Somehow i've read 38lb, but 24lb sounds good.
Okay - now that we somewhat narrow down the "options" - let's raise the bar with one more aspect - in today's market - this reel has to cost NOT MORE then $230.
Now, what options do we have?

[alantani]

I believe that the most accurate test here would be to lift a dead weight of 20lb by cranking the hanle only, with a 4/0. No trailers no scales and no water, as boghy mentioned. Mr Watson looks like a healty young man, BUT, I don't believe that he could lift 20lb of dead waight just by cranking the handle. Sal

i dunno, sal.  ed held on to that rod and he cranked the handle with considerable ease.....   

[Alto Mare]

Going after those monsters most of his life, Mr Watson could probably do it  . I'm sure that he can hold that rod better then most of us. I would still love to see a video of Mr Watson or any other members here lifting a 20 to 25lb dead waight just by cranking the handle with a 4/0 or less.

I believe that boghy was trying to stimulate the economy. I'm sure that some of the reels  will need to have some parts replaced afterward
Sal

[mackereljoe]

Sounds like an Okuma Cavalla 20II might work or at least it's in the price range. 

[Jimmer]

Thanks Mackeraljoe - I was just waiting to see if someone else would say it - Jimmer

[boghy]

This is EXACTLY where i want to end up with with my question - to talk about what can be truly done in EASY way with: Okuma Cavalla CA-20-II
I'll be honest with you guys, till today i'm still scratching my head to follow Okuma's way to measure the drags, and to come up with the same or at least near to thous drag numbers that were published for Okuma Cavalla series - but i still couldn't figure it out.
So, as some of you may know, i do some reel tunings here and there - and my new thing that i came up with is how to tune up the drag on Okuma Cavalla CA-20-II WITHOUT loosing freespool and be in range of $230 all together. As we all know you can't go wrong with eBay biddings to purchase this reel cheaper under $200 - brand new.
Lets start with: For who this tuneup is?
If you're looking to cast BIG chunk of bait and have some nice drags PLUS cranking power, you'll need to go deep into your pockets to spend at least $400 for a nice avet HX two speed or okuma makaira 10 (considering that can dead lift 20lb weight) OR you can modify an Okuma Cavalla CA-20-II to that job fairly well for around half that money.
It was not easy to figure out how to do it, since it toke some "out of the box" thinking to come up with this:
1) The classical bellevilles change is needed from "()" to - and please bear with me here OK? : [bearing]=((=[end axle] <<<--- VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE BEND OF THE "bellevilles" TO BE AWAY FROM THE BEARING - NOT TOWARDS THE BEARING - GOT IT?
,and now THE TRICKY PART which was also my "out of the box thinking":
2) call okuma and order the part number #16050111 which is called "Level Drag" and part number #16020024 which is the "ADJUST BLOCK" for Okuma Cavalla CA-50W-II NOT Okuma Cavalla CA-20-II - sounds weird right? - but this stuff - works!
By doing thous changes you'll lose the dotted steeps that all okuma cavalla series have, and you'll gain a true 10lb drag at strike and 20-22lb drag at full strike without loosing freespool. You WON'T loose the strike button functionality with the 50w's level drag and WILL BE STOPPED BY THE BUTTON, when pushed forward - at strike. Also, you'll notice how EXTREMELY EASY up to the point to trick you - on how easy will be to engage your level drag all the way to the strike. The size of the level drag won't look big at all from 50w cavalla, as a matter of fact, if you'll show this reel to someone who never seen an Cavalla 20, will NOT even notice the level drag coming from 50w.

[updated 12/29/2011]

3) Please read the *** at the bottom of this post.


At 1.7:1 lower gear ratio - you'll be amazed what fish you can lift up like a crane up on the pier without using a gaff or a pier net.
For offshore? - no experience - but you can use your imagination to figure it out where this reel will be your best fit - after changing these settings.
After all these changes - enjoy your newly modified Okuma Cavalla CA-20-II - i'm sure you'll gonna smile when you'll see what the end results are.

P.S. The trick used for Okuma Cavalla CA-50II to tune up the drag DOES NOT WORK for Okuma Cavalla CA-20-II. <<<---- WRONG [updated 12/29/2011]

[updated 12/29/2011]

***The Okuma Cavalla CA-20II WILL need that ONE part #16090013 named "Spring Washer" from Okuma Solterra SLR-15CS an $0.50 value, where will need to be installed in the SAME way like 50w series, shown here: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1696.msg12189#msg12189
...now the upgrade should work properly.

[boghy]

I would like to apologize with my initial question from my first post, when i had in my mind, already the answer - just to come to the point of the above post - to give the solution about - how can be a cheap tuneup done, for the only option currently available - the 20ll cavalla under thous "requirements".


P.S. Alan, if you want you can split that post and transfer the step-by-step post to the "Okuma Tutorials and Questions" - i'm sure that many Okuma Cavalla 20 users will find it - useful.

In my mind, the ONLY fault that Okuma Cavalla series had, was the design of the "Adjust Block". IF - AND - ONLY - IF - YOU COMPARE - this part of the reel with ANY other OKUMA level drag "Adjust Block" - you'll notice that Okuma Cavalla's "Adjust Block" - is very roughly made. No smooth surfaces, no right angle - its like not even finished, which makes the "Adjust Block" to GROUND - overtime - the "Level Drag" (heck, i even found grounded pieces from the "level drag" mixed with grease) - this is also what gives you that "hard push" feeling. It's sad to see it go, even though, i'm 100% sure - if the people in the QA department from Okuma would push the "Adjust Block" to be shaped up - the Okuma Cavalla series would STILL be A BAD A... REEL. IF you manage to follow my tutorial on how to tune up your drag - you'll realize that 20lbs fish, for $230 ebay price - is no big deal - to lift up like a crane 20ft high.


Thank you for reading this.

[Jimmer]

I don't have a ca 12 to  compare the ca 50 parts to. What is the difference here? Longer drag lever, different cam angle, better surface finish? Thanks - Jimmer