break my 1st blank performing an static test before building it

Started by steelfish, October 15, 2020, 08:42:50 PM

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steelfish

well, as tittle says.

before spending money building a rod on a brand new blank or restoring an old rod, I always perform an static test to be sure the blank doesnt have a hidden nick or a invisible hit on the shipping or while handling it on the store before sending it, that could compromise the finished rod on a good fish, it wont be nice to spend a good amount on time and money to build a nice fishing rod just to having it break on a small fish,  on old rods that friends want me to restore and install new guides, thread, etc I normally test the rod before taking the old guides out from it lifting from the floor 1/4 (25%) of the recommended line rating of the blank, so far every blank and rods passed the test, once the blank have the grips and reelseat installed I do another static test just to check where the running guides should be placed and once the guides are installed the rod is finished.

well, I just have my 1st blank exploting at my face while lifting 8# of weight from the floor while the blank was rated 30#, it was a 7'10"  14-30lb
composite blank, that I planned to build for inshore fishing, this was suposed to be a rod for my new Abu Garcia toro beast 60 but the blank is no longer in good shape LOL.
the blank had the same specs of the rainshadow Revelation line for swimbaits 7'10" 14-30lb, same butt size and tip, but I will never know, fool of me that was blind it by the good selling price.

so, for all the seasoned rodsmiths out there, let me know where I did something wrong, maybe I need to start with a weight of 1/6 from the line rating and keep adding weight or something or never test them before building it.  :-\

-- for new blanks, before intalling grips and reelseat, I install a tiptop and do the static test as I already said, I never bound the weight once is lifted from the floor or anything like that, just be sure the blank has enough backbone to fight a fish with the 1/4 drag of the line rating as max, I did a lot of reading on the matter and seems like a normal procedure but I could be wrong.
- once installing the grips and reelseat I do an static test again with the guides attached to the blank with masking tape just to know where is the natural curve of the blank and adjust the guides on the proper zones of the blank, this time I dont try to lift any weight just attach the line from the reel through every running guide to something heavy or sometimes the same 8# of weight just to make a curve on the blank.

now the bad news are that I was recenly told by the owner of Getbitoudoors the blank doest have any warranty at all because it was on extremely discount from the normal price :-\ :-\,  they also (Getbitoutdoors) dont want me to tell the brand of the blank but put on the selling add that "were" from one of the mayor rod blanks brands on the market BUT they werent allowed to tell the name of the brand because of the extreme discount but you wont be dissapointed they said on the add.

ooh well, seems like I need to live with the experience an not "fall in those atracting low prices again" specially if there is no Brand involved on which you can go directly and tell them the problem.
Live and learn ...

time to save for a UC or calstar blank for that abu Garcia toro beast 60, I have two nice factory rods to pair it, I have an okuma shadow stalker inshore rod and an phenix BD 70H rod, but my plan is to sell all my factory rods and use only custom rods made by yours truly.


The Baja Guy

David Hall

Wow seems to me the supplier would want you to be happy with your purchase, I can see nothing wrong that you did.  A 30# blank should easily be able to lift 8# static load. 
Store credit for the amount you spent would be a fair compromise.  I'd want to know who the manufacturer was also.

jurelometer

Allow me to take a bit of a contrary position:

1. How far did the rod bend?  I think that a 90 degree load test is the important one. This is how far a rod should be able to safely bend for casting and fighting fish.  Any bend beyond this is not going to happen casting, and when fighting a fish, the extra bend does not give you any extra lifting force, it just puts an extraordinary load on the blank as discussed in the "how many  guides" thread.   It is nice if a rod has some margin of error so that it does not blow up when accidentally high sticking next to the boat, but this is not to be expected, especially for a long light, fast taper, extra stiff rod that has no fiberglass.

Anchor the rod butt horizontal to the ground, and pull on the tip until it is pointing 90 degrees downward,  If the blank can handle this without blowing up, then you have a working blank.

If you want, you can pull with a scale.  More on this later.

2.  Testing the load by tying to   the tip will not distribute the load over the blank.  It will just pull the tip toward the butt with the load concentrated somewhere on the upper half of the rod, right at the apex of the inside curve on the blank.     Even if you did not bend past 90 degrees, the load will be much more concentrated toward the tip  (and only at one spot) than it would have been if the line was strung through a set of guides, distributing the load.

3. If the guides are placed properly, you can manage  a tremendous amount of lifting force by angling the rod correctly to load toward the but section(hint- not too high on the lifting)  The tip bends down and the butt takes over.  I have broken a 30 lb core fly line on an 8 weight fly rod when trying to stop a big pargo from reaching the rocks.  If I tried lifting an 8 pound weight off the ground with that rod, I would have blown it up for sure.  I have seen plenty of rods break under very light load because of high sticking.  My point here is that how much load a rod can handle is often subjective, it depends a bit on how much skill the manufacturer is expecting from the fisherman.  Especially with thin wall carbon fiber rods.

4. Even after wrapping, you may have an expectation of being able to dead lift 1/4 of the line rating by using the blank  as a lever, and that might even be a reasonable expectation on certain classes of blanks.  But not all.  The longer, lighter, stiffer, and/or faster the blank, the more  likely you will be pushing the blank beyond its limits.

5.  The line rating is just that. The weight class rating of line that the manufacturer expects you to use.  And they will tweak those numbers to make a marketing goal.  I don't think we should trust that some sort of fixed ratio for  dead lift testing will always be appropriate.  When in doubt, you can always ask the manufacturer.

6. My suggestion for the future would be to do the 90 degree test on the bare blank to check for defects.  Then build the rod as per normal.  Now with the reel in the rod, and the line running though the guides to a scale, see how much force  it takes to bend the rod to 90 degrees.  That is an  actual useful load rating.    You could even write this on the blank next to the line rating ("90o load  "), as an added value from a custom builder.  8). Setting the drag beyond this rating means that you will have to manage the bend in the rod more carefully.

7.  It would not be a Jurelometer post if I did not mention safety glasses :). Just for everyone else.  I am sure that you were wearing them.

--------


It would be interesting to compare several different brands with the same rating and usage to see how close they are at 90 degrees.  I don't think that a 7 foot muskie rod rated to 50 lb line will have the same lifting capacity as a 7 foot saltwater jig stick with the same rating.

As a caveat, this is just a hobby builder's opinion.  I only build a few rods each year.  YMMV. 

I do agree with David.  A store credit, or an explanation why your test was unfairly destructive, and the rod was not delivered as defective is in order.  Or both.  The listing on the web store  probably had some text that stated "seconds with cosmetic defects" or overstock.  If they did not state that these blanks are are structurally inferior seconds and that some may fail, they should be on the hook.  At least until you fish the rod, then all bets are off. 

-J

Swami805

I'm under the impression that you've tested many rods this way so I'm thinking you got a bad blank. They should stand behind what they sell, deep discount or not. On the bright side you don't have any time invested in it. Hopefully it didn't cost much
I had a client buy 20 blanks, I built 4 for him and all 4 broke the first time out, just absolutely junk. I tested a few more any they broke too. These weren't 2nds , he bought them at the factory. I keep 1 around just as a reminder to stick to brands that have stood the test of time. 
Do what you can with that you have where you are

foakes

In reality, Get Bit Outdoors will come out ahead by refunding your money or giving you full credit towards another brand blank.

It's the old 20/20 rule in retailing and customer service —

It might take 20 years to earn a solid reputation — and 20 seconds to lose one forever.

An unhappy customer will tell 20 people of his bad experience with their company — and those 20 people might tell another 20 folks each.

It doesn't take a calculator to do the math — and a reliable retailer doesn't need a calculator to do the right thing.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

steelfish

@ David, totally agree on what you said, but seems that the store have another vision, I answered back to getbitoutdoors store telling them that in the future instead of saying that they arent "allowed" to tell the manufacturer of the "nice" brand of the blank just sell them as their house brand and stand behind of that product even if they are some generic chinesse blanks for $5 dlls wholesale price.

@Jeff, you have some good points on your comments thanks, specially on the parts of longer, ligther and faster taped graphite rods are more prone to break when reaching their limits, but a composite rod "should have" the best of both worlds, sensitive, light but still some glass on the blank to make them more user-friendly for hard users or beginners, I try to recommend composite blanks to my friends anytime I can they want to get a 100% graphite rod because I know how hard they are on the rods.

I might have to start with less weight on the "before building it" tests, maybe 1/6 of the line rating or something and see how the rod it feels as Im applying force.

in this rod let me tell you that I was surprised how easily and steady it lifted the bag of 8# weight from the floor as if you could lift more weight easily, I actually had a smile of my face because the rod never shaked or felt weak when I was doing it, I was about to check the curvature of the blank when I just heard BAM!! and I felt a hit on my finger (yep, I was wearing glasses but seems that I need to start wearing leather gloves too), the broken part hit me on my finger and it made a small cut on the finger because of the way of the cut in the graphite, nothing to worry about but it wasnt funny.

when I was reading how to make those static tests before and after the rod is built, some seasoned rodsmiths think that once the guides are placed on the blank you make make the blank weaker by puting some new stressing points that the blanks didnt have on its natural curve, if you install many guides on it well you just make it a broom stick and it will be "stronger" for sure, the hard thing to do is to find the way to install the less guides on it but still keeping the natural curve of the blank to let the blank work its way while fishing, but DO I KNOW, Im just a hobbyist and still learning from my mistakes, but not sure if this was one of them  ;D hence my initial question.


@ compadre Sheridan, I dont have much experience as many of guys here but I was surprised for sure the way this happened, thats why I wanted to share it with all of you, if Im doing something wrong or extreme then I will change for sure my methods, good thing it was one of my personal blanks, it wont be funny to deal with this with a $150 or more blank and heard from the manufacturer that it was my fault so, no valid a warranty  :o :o, this blank was around $50 so, not really that cheap but it wont leave a mark on my wallet but for double of that I could have gotten a better blank or at least a blank that could have any warranty  ::)

whatta bad story of your friend with those 20 blanks
The Baja Guy

Cor

I have tested many rods by dead lifting 10 lbs from the floor which has always been my benchmark.   Sometimes I had to stand on a higher level to achieve it without high sticking
There have been times when I notice the rod is going to bend too much to lift the weight and is therefore not strong enough or does not have enough backbone.

I have always regarded this test as dangerous.

@ jurelometer
My brain does not want to understand your point 2.   ???  Why is the stress on the rod different if I hang a weight tied to the tip only or if the line is threaded through say 10 guides?   Please be so kind as to explain that.    Thanks
Cornelis

philaroman

the Euro Test Curve system for rating long F/W bank/float rods asks precisely that,
"how much weight does it take, to make the tip perpendicular to the butt?"
I believe it originates w/ the Brits, so it's in pounds
my 3.0TC is marked 10-20# (more like, 8-20# being extra-long 13', moderate IM-6)
methinks, 14-30# would be 3.5TC-4.0TC ballpark
anything well over 5.0TC is mainly for casting out 2-3 lb. chumming contraptions
don't think anything approaching 8.0TC is even made

just a [mostly] factual tidbit...  you sciency guys decide how/if it applies  ;D

Brewcrafter

Quote from: Cor on October 16, 2020, 02:44:38 AM
I have tested many rods by dead lifting 10 lbs from the floor which has always been my benchmark.   Sometimes I had to stand on a higher level to achieve it without high sticking
There have been times when I notice the rod is going to bend too much to lift the weight and is therefore not strong enough or does not have enough backbone.

I have always regarded this test as dangerous.

@ jurelometer
My brain does not want to understand your point 2.   ???  Why is the stress on the rod different if I hang a weight tied to the tip only or if the line is threaded through say 10 guides?   Please be so kind as to explain that.    Thanks

Cor - What I think Dave is describing I am about to totally oversimplify and will probably totally mess it up, but:
Plain rod that is bent that had a weight (force) attached directly to the tip is pointing...down.  And all of the force of that weight is focused there at that one point.  Now, let's say I'm a cheeseball rod builder and we have that exact same rod, BUT, the line is anchored at the butt of the pole, goes up to the tip. and goes to our weight.  You would have something that resembles a bow (with the line creating a straight line from the butt end to the tip end, and then dropping down to the weight (force).  The downward force on the tip will not be different (yeah the old High School caveat of "ignore friction").  Now imagine that as this rod blank that is bent with only a tip on it, you reach out with your finger at the midpoint of the line between the butt and tip and pull it up towards the rod.  Your finger will meet substantial resistance (in a bow this energy transference is what makes an arrow fly).  That force you are feeling is a vector directly perpendicular to the line created between the anchor point at the butt and the tip (this is totally independent of how much line you have from the tip to you weight (force).  Your tip to weight distance could be 5 feet or 50 feet - no difference - the only thing that matters is the force),  So, let's say you pull the line at the midpoint up to the blank, and magically insert a guide that is wrapped at this midpoint - the line now goes through there but the force against that guide is directly perpendicular to a line between the butt of the rod (the anchor point) and the tip of the rod (where the line weaves through to the weight/force).  This new "rod" with only a tip and one midpoint guide (and the line anchored at the butt) is now distributing the "force" of the weight at two points:  the tip (directly toward the weight/force) and at this new "midpoint" guide (with the force there being directly perpendicular to a straight line between the butt and the tip - again think of how a bow works).  Same amount of force (weight) but now distributed at multiple anchor points on the rod (tip, midpoint, and butt).  Now, as you add more guides (let's ignore that friction thing again) you multiply this effect; basically distributing the same force over multiple points (however the vectors will change, always perpendicular to the anchor points (guides) on each side of a given guide).  I have probably totally butchered this explanation but then again, I only graduated high school physics because the teacher was also the Golf Team coach... - john

Sharkb8

I had a kilwell live fibre blank do that to me ones, it was when they  first  came out, took it back to the shop and they replace it.

Kim

oc1

Damn.  I've broken GetBit rods but never toward the middle like that.  At that diameter, it would be difficult to break the rod over your knee on purpose.

Here is an interesting article by Gary Loomis about rod breakage.
https://kistlerrods.com/blogs/kistler-news/gary-loomis-talks-about-rod-breakage

The way I look at GetBit, you can break half of them and still come out cheaper than buying a high quality big-name blank.

Maybe St. Croix or Lamiglass will have a factory outlet store at their new production facilities in Mexico.  :) They are probably way north and east of you though

-s

jurelometer

Quote from: Cor on October 16, 2020, 02:44:38 AM
I have tested many rods by dead lifting 10 lbs from the floor which has always been my benchmark.   Sometimes I had to stand on a higher level to achieve it without high sticking
There have been times when I notice the rod is going to bend too much to lift the weight and is therefore not strong enough or does not have enough backbone.

I have always regarded this test as dangerous.

@ jurelometer
My brain does not want to understand your point 2.   ???  Why is the stress on the rod different if I hang a weight tied to the tip only or if the line is threaded through say 10 guides?   Please be so kind as to explain that.    Thanks
Those innocent questions are always killers :)


I have struggled a bit with this question, and don't think that I have a 100% handle on it to be honest with you.  It goes beyond the most rudimentary aspects of physics where I am more comfortable. 

I think it works something like this: 

A  blank has progressive elasticity.  The tip bends more easily, and it takes less force to exceed the elasticity toward the tip.  If the rod is angled relative to the load in such a way that that the tip section is pointing toward the load, the tip is no longer under load (if the top 12 inches of the rod is not being bent, then it is not experiencing any load) . The load did not disappear, it moved toward the stronger butt section.

If I bend the rod well past 90 degrees (let's say a full 180 degrees), the bottom half of the rod will now be experiencing very little load, with the load concentrated near the tip with  a huge difference between the inner and outer radius of the curves on the blank on each side of the bend.  Bang pow crash.

Getting to the trickier version of Cor's question: Would a rod with only a tip guide concentrate more of the load toward the tip  vs. a theoretical  set of guides selected and placed to perfectly match the natural bend at a given load?   Not sure to be honest, but from a practical standpoint, the load on the guides will never exactly match the natural load shape, both of which will diverge different amounts at various load force and angles. So the guides will always be varying the load distribution, hopefully in a useful way (more load toward the butt as load increases).  I think this is also what John was referring to, but I am not a golfer :)


Quote from: steelfish on October 16, 2020, 02:08:27 AM

@Jeff, you have some good points on your comments thanks, specially on the parts of longer, ligther and faster taped graphite rods are more prone to break when reaching their limits, but a composite rod "should have" the best of both worlds, sensitive, light but still some glass on the blank to make them more user-friendly for hard users or beginners, I try to recommend composite blanks to my friends anytime I can they want to get a 100% graphite rod because I know how hard they are on the rods.

I am not Jeff-  I am Jurelometer :)

The term composite in material science just means something made of two fundamentally different materials (like ruuber and steel, or glue and paper).  So any fishing rod blank ( fibers and resin) can be called a composite.  Fishing tackle manufactures, being the scoundrels that they are use this term to mean whatever they want at the time.  While in some cases it might mean a combination of fiberglass and carbon cloth/fibers, in other cases it can be a combination of pre-preg (they buy  the cloth with the resin already added)  and dry fibers.  Or it could mean nothing at at all other than cloth and resin.

If you want to get a glass carbon fiber combo- you probably want to look for this to be documented explicitly (e-glass or s-glass plus carbon fiber or graphite) and not rely just on the term "composite"

I took a quick look at the Rainshadow Revelation blanks, and they did not include their marketing buzzword for glass/carbon combo ( VERSATILE DURABLE BLEND -VDB) , so think your blank is just the carbon fiber. If you decide to go for a blend next time and  you want something similar  from Rainshadow  look at the RCLB79L (20 % heavier than the Revelation ), or SWT70H ( 3 piece, much lighter, but only 7 foot- I have two of these, but I think that a SWT70MH might be a better match for Sea of Cortez shore casting.)


Quote

I might have to start with less weight on the "before building it" tests, maybe 1/6 of the line rating or something and see how the rod it feels as Im applying force.

Not sure how you can tell if a blank is going to blow up before it  happens.

A rod that is bent at 90 degrees is doing all for you that it can,   Beyond this, you are not getting any mechanical advantage, and you are dramatically increasing the chance of damage.  Using a fixed bend to determine a load is tells you more and does so with less risk than using a fixed load and hoping for the best.  No reason to turn a constant (maximum useful bend) into a variable.  If you do not reach your desired load at 90 degrees, then you need to stop anyways.   There are two aspects to this measurement- Pulling the tip at a 90 degree angle  from the butt, and pulling until the tip section is pointing in the direction you are pulling.

This is not an method that I can take credit for.  I got it from a two-handed fly rod builder - Bob Meiser, but I use this in all of my rods.

-J (urelometer)

The Fishing Hobby

 I don't put any serious weight on until I have the guides wrapped. With the guides on the load is distributed across each guide all the way back to the reel itself. The stripper guide does most of the heavy lifting. With weight tied to the tip top, all the weight is hanging from the weakest part of the rod.

I do a very light test to find my guide positions by tying the tip top to something and put a light bend in the rod from that, then I run a second line from a reel, through the guides/tip top and tie just enough weight to that line to keep tension on it and then I position the guides. After that I tie the guides on with rubber bands like the second method shown here and static load test/make any adjustments and then wrap and retest/confirm everything looks right:

steelfish

Quote from: The Fishing Hobby on October 16, 2020, 12:52:26 PM
I don't put any serious weight on until I have the guides wrapped.
thanks for your input, as I said, I still learning from the pros, let me ask you this, how much it would be "serious weight" for a 30# blank?
actually "serious weight for a 30# blank" was the million dollar question.



Quote from: foakes on October 16, 2020, 01:31:25 AM
In reality, Get Bit Outdoors will come out ahead by refunding your money or giving you full credit towards another brand blank.
Best, Fred

hello Fred thanks for your input, I posted that question abut how to test a brand new blank and Im happy to read this many good comments, so, Im more interested to learn how some other guys are doing it or maybe they DONT check a brand new blank until is time to install the guides, this is not a just a RANT post about getbitoutdoors, I recall reading in the offer add something like "no warranty because of the extreme discount but you wont be disappointed, this blank came from one of the big reputable blank manufacturers but they didnt allow us to tell". (props to tell this was one atractive add), they just sell rainshadow blanks, United composite, black hole, century and their house brand GB blanks, so, if those blanks were not house brand blanks then you suppose they should be from one of the other brands they sell, right? answer is not, it wasnt, it was just a Non branded blank with no warranties, they said so, the "extreme discount" was just a gimmick sale in my books.
they promote themselves as the biggest distributer of Rainshadow blanks, they also sell their own "brand" of blanks "GB" and many others good reputable blank brands, so, why dont just put those blanks under their GB brand and stand behind them, but anyway, you know what they said, if its too good to be true, then....

by the way, they sent me another email telling me that, sorry but since it was listed as no warranty, then it not warranty at all and also they said they sold a pile (??) of those blanks and this its the 1st one they know it got broke.
also told me they contacted a "reputable manufacturer" (looks like they contacted the manufacturer of those blanks) to ask how they test their blanks and the answer was,  for a 30# blanks they only use 32oz weight or 48oz max!!.
Good to know how a blank is tested in the factory, they use an average 10% of the proposed line rate of the blank to check the natural curve of the blank, but still didnt said which manufacturer they contacted, if its a valid method it would be nice to know that Batson or seeker or whatever check the blank you are buying on their QC control area that way and that will give you some confidence when buying from them.


Quote from: jurelometer on October 16, 2020, 10:01:10 AM
I am not Jeff-  I am Jurelometer :)

The term composite in material science just means something made of two fundamentally different materials (like ruuber and steel, or glue and paper).  So any fishing rod blank ( fibers and resin) can be called a composite.  Fishing tackle manufactures, being the scoundrels that they are use this term to mean whatever they want at the time.  While in some cases it might mean a combination of fiberglass and carbon cloth/fibers, in other cases it can be a combination of pre-preg (they buy  the cloth with the resin already added)  and dry fibers.  Or it could mean nothing at at all other than cloth and resin.

If you want to get a glass carbon fiber combo- you probably want to look for this to be documented explicitly (e-glass or s-glass plus carbon fiber or graphite) and not rely just on the term "composite"

-- opps sorry about that one, Dave.

I will pay more attention on the "composite" materials on the blanks the next time, you are right, I read composite and automatically thought on glass+graphite as materials for the blank just as my super seeker or graphiter rods, I have a short experience on the rainshadow blanks, they are good for the money, I have built some on the REAL composite line (rx6 graphite+ glass) as the RCLB70XL and RCJB84xh.

https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=31453.0



Quote from: jurelometer on October 16, 2020, 10:01:10 AM
A rod that is bent at 90 degrees is doing all for you that it can,   Beyond this, you are not getting any mechanical advantage, and you are dramatically increasing the chance of damage.  Using a fixed bend to determine a load is tells you more and does so with less risk than using a fixed load and hoping for the best.  No reason to turn a constant (maximum useful bend) into a variable.  If you do not reach your desired load at 90 degrees, then you need to stop anyways.   There are two aspects to this measurement- Pulling the tip at a 90 degree angle  from the butt, and pulling until the tip section is pointing in the direction you are pulling.
This is not an method that I can take credit for.  I got it from a two-handed fly rod builder - Bob Meiser, but I use this in all of my rods.
-J (urelometer)

-- thats an interesting comment, but it surely it could be different readings on different blanks materials glass and graphite, fast or medium, etc , as you already said in a previous post " It would be interesting to compare several different brands with the same rating and usage to see how close they are at 90 degrees.  I don't think that a 7 foot muskie rod rated to 50 lb line will have the same lifting capacity as a 7 foot saltwater jig stick with the same rating."
but as a referring method to check the curve of the blank and install the guides its good to know that I was doing it correctly, when I adjust the guides for the final position I dont search for the max lifting weight but for a nice 90* bent and look for the line avoiding touching the blank

normally I just do "destructive" lifting tests on "old rods" MH or H that friends want me to rebuild with nice guides and lots of thread work, so before spending money and time on it, we need to check it wont break on a nice 30# YT or grouper with the drag at 20#, many of those rods already have many nicks and hits and deep scratches all over the blank.


Quote from: jurelometer on October 16, 2020, 10:01:10 AM
I took a quick look at the Rainshadow Revelation blanks, and they did not include their marketing buzzword for glass/carbon combo ( VERSATILE DURABLE BLEND -VDB) , so think your blank is just the carbon fiber. If you decide to go for a blend next time and  you want something similar  from Rainshadow  look at the RCLB79L (20 % heavier than the Revelation ), or SWT70H ( 3 piece, much lighter, but only 7 foot- I have two of these, but I think that a SWT70MH might be a better match for Sea of Cortez shore casting.)
-J (urelometer)

thanks for the blank recommendation, Dave.

The Baja Guy

oc1

Quote from: jurelometer on October 16, 2020, 10:01:10 AM
If I bend the rod well past 90 degrees (let's say a full 180 degrees), the bottom half of the rod will now be experiencing very little load, with the load concentrated near the tip with  a huge difference between the inner and outer radius of the curves on the blank on each side of the bend.  Bang pow crash.

That is called high-sticking.

I have a lot of respect for Gary Loomis.  You can read about his life and times online.  In his demonstration (referenced above) he is holding the rod at the tip while someone holding the butt tries to break it at a 90 degree angle, but cannot.

Early hardwood rods had only one ring and that was the tip-top.  Running guides were added over time to keep the line from rubbing on the rod, not to transfer the load to the butt. It is taper that transfers the load to the butt.

Load up a rod, reel and line with a bend.  Measure and sum the downward force of the line on each guide.  That downward force of the line on the guide is really small.  You can flick the line up and down with your fingernail.  The tip-top is the only guide that is handling a lot of downward pressure.

If guides could distribute load and make a beam stronger, then a boom truck or dragline or crane would have guides.  They don't.

When building heavier and heavier rods, you would start replacing the ring tip-top with a roller tip.  Only when moving up the ladder would it be worthwhile to put on roller striper and roller running guides.

Prove it to yourself.  Take two cheap dowels with uniform diameter (no taper).  Put a line with guides on one dowel.  Tie a line to the tip on the other dowel.  Now break them by pulling on the line at a 90 degree angle.  The guides do not make the dowel any stronger.

-steve