Rod ratings questions and that stuff.

Started by gstours, October 24, 2020, 02:11:31 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

gstours

  For fifty years its kinda bugged me with this question.
Why cant the fishing industry have a standard to which a rod in question could be compared to another without having to purchase it and then be possibly satisfied with the action of it?   Other standards like the length, actual weight of the finished rod, number of guides, top guide size and fore end grip , but length, reel seat size etc are usually accurate in advertisement butt the bigger picture of the rod action and capability are in general vary vague.
  Lure weight and line rating to me dont mean much with the advent of braid.  I just wondered if anybody else has these issues?  Its like ordering a mail order bride when you order a finished rod or blank in that you have a 50% chance of getting what you prefer if you made your order without fondling the rod or blank in a store.  Even in a store you can look at two rods and they are usually rated the same or very close and if different manufacturers are used they can be very different in action .... Much of my purchases have to be mail order.   
   At least a standard weight using a deflection test ot table would fill in a lot of guessing for a suggestion and starter..   Maybe i,m wanting too much or getting too picky butt nowadays rods start at a hundred buck and shipping and returning adds to the costs.......
 

foakes

I know your frustration, Gary —

But there are really no rules.

Many times, the marketing guys are writing the specs for the rods and reels we buy.  There are no laws that enforce honesty in the fishing industry.  There are companies that we can trust — and that is based on recommendations, independent testing and verification, integrity, and corporate honestly.

It has been this way for many decades now — and it is worsening every year.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

Cor

#2
As far as I know Rod Blanks are still individually hand made, so difficult to make next one precisely like the previous one.

We always used to complain at our local manufacturers that there was a significant variability in the specs of their rods.

So I think it will be very difficult for them to make rods according to a single spec.    It would also make competition amongst the manufacturers more intense as the products may well become more generic and sales may be a matter of price only......so perhaps the industry would not like this. ???

I have always said I would love to have access to a manufacturer's stock to go and try a sack full of blanks till I find what suits me.    Only way to obtain precisely what you want.
Cornelis

jurelometer

https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=28741.msg332235#msg332235

https://www.common-cents.info/

The rod companies do not  have an incentive to cooperate on any standardized system.  It is easy and relatively inexpensive to come up with some basic ratings.   Of course, the rod companies don't have to do it.  Anybody can run  some simple tests and post their results.  There are lots of community generated ratings of fly rod blanks out there.

The common cents system  was conceived for fly rods, which need to be characterized more accurately than conventional rods,  so while there might be a better system tailored specifically for conventional rods, I think this system makes it pretty clear that this would not be that difficult a task.

If I was a professional saltwater rod builder,  I would generate and post some comparisons on my website.  It should generate some traffic. Plus, if somebody wanted a rod similar to their buddies, I  could have them run the simple test on the buddie's rod, and be able to make some recommendations. Or if they wanted something stiffer, faster, more backbone, etc. from a rod that they already own.  It opens the door to more web orders. Etc., etc.

And don't get me started on hook sizes   >:(

-J

oc1

The lure weight rating and pound rating speaks to me more than waggling the rod in a store.  I would rather study the specs, compare brands and buy on-line than try to choose from a more limited selection in the store.  The real test is the field trial.
-steve

Sharkb8

Yes they should come up with some type of standard, I fish with  manly mono so when I go to a shop and see rods rated in braid eg. PE 6 ? I get confused and cast weight don't mean a thing to me .

Kim

Cor

Cornelis

wascallywabit

The same situation exists in the golf industry with driver shafts. There is no "standard" between manufacturers with regard to flex ratings. Shaft ratings are typically, extra stiff, stiff, regular or senior. But one companies stiff may be the equivalent to another companies regular and so forth. The advantage in the golf world is that a player can get "fit" for the proper shaft by his local pro. No such "fitting" is available for fishing rods or shafts to my knowledge. Seems that fiberglass, graphite and composite shaft construction is a crap shoot at best.

Ed

jurelometer

Just as a reminder, the links I posted above were to discussions and the home page  for  a vendor neutral  rod rating system that is pretty darn useful, and easy to do at home.

The rod manufacturers are not going to lead the way here, but there is nothing stopping a community based effort.

-J

gstours

Thanks everyone for sharing your information and thoughts.  I stirred only a minor nest up compared to our buddy Steelfish.   We share some things in common like we both have sand on our beaches and are trying to prevent mistakes in the future.
  Maybe I should have been more spacific on the type of rod and usage?  Butt this was a good discussion on things mabee we have had questions about in the past.     Tanks.

Jeri

Initially in the UK a lot of manufacturers started designation their carp rods with a rating, commonly refereed to as 'Test Curve', which was basically the weight rating in pounds, required to pull the blank around to 90 degrees, then that figure was translated by magic to a ounces number rating for the blank to represent best casting weight. It obviously had no bearing on the actual curvature of the blank under load or the action. But, it was as close to anything else generally available, and was accepted as the norm.

However, from my experience, simply translating the same procedure up to slightly longer surf blanks, it has produced all sorts of extreme variables, enough to actually make it a totally pointless figure. In some instances we have good competition level surf blanks that will sweetly cast 6oz and bait, and have a 'test curve' rating of 8-9kgs, then take a UK blanks from one of the custom blank manufacturers, which again is a proven 6oz + bait blank, and the 'test curve' is something in the order of 18.5kgs!!!!!

I discussed this at length with a local blank manufacturer a few years back, where a series of defined tests needed to be carried out on any single design to achieve a set of at best 'partially meaningful' numbers to describe all the attributes of a single blank design. His ultimate comment, was that what it generated would just breed further confusion and misunderstanding in the rod buying public.

The upshot is, that I now buy a new prototype blank, build it and test cast over a range of sinker weights to find 'the sweet spot', then that becomes the designation of the rod. It still leaves me to recommend to new clients a potentially stiff 5oz or a soft 6oz, but it seems to be the best on offer in a very potentially complex subject.

In short, there is no simple answer to the ratings question.

gstours

Thanks Jeri,  and everyone.  I did learn by listening to you about spin rod guide size,type, placement, and that was a  good reason to ask questions here and am glad you are here and dont mind helping.  Best of luck over there.
  I was surprised actually that the fly fishers would come up with a system of penney weight to measure the force of gravity to pull a rod tip down to 90 degrees when these fishers may by more educated and affluent than some of us bait fishers.  It seemed like they would use quarters or dimes at least?   
These are reasonable attempts to make a standard to compare blanks with.  Butt its my problem and i,m used to disappointments. :(
    For my own rod building I made a 20 ounce deflection test for my salmon rods.  Ten pounds are always used on my halibut rods and the rating is simply the deflection of the load in inches.  Useful yes to me.... Butt now i want to do more things with jig rods for halibut primarily and i,m not casting anything.  I want to purchase a blank and maybe a factory rod but its a crapshoot chance because I cant use the type of information that is so general for joe public and thought there was a better way to steer towards a satisfying purchase.