4400SS A/R issue

[elcarlstono]

I have a 4400SS that my son and I rebuilt last Christmas. It has the "new style" A/R, butt was still causing me a lot of problems. I completely degreased and regreased and it was working great through about 5 or 6 trips. After that the A/R didnt want to engage unless I spun the reel backwards really fast several times.
I understand that this was a weak spot on the reel, but  expected it to last longer than that!  Any tips  anyone has on getting more life out of the A/R before it starts to fail would be greatly appreciated. 
Or, if I should just go ahead and expect this I'll plan on getting him something else.
Thanks!
Carlton

[JasonGotaProblem]

I'm no expert but I believe its the same design as the 4500SS "new style" AR. Its friction ring based. As such it needs friction to work. So the AR is the one part i leave increased. Also you can consider going to a sprung setup. It'll click. A lot. but it wont fail.

[philaroman]

my guess:
you greased the clutch -- DON'T
or
used too much grease all-around & some traveled into the clutch -- DON'T

[elcarlstono]

OK, so more friction.  Got it!  The degreaser bath will start shortly..

THanks!

[elcarlstono]

Wait, what part are we calling the "clutch". Nothing on the diagram is labeled as such.

[JasonGotaProblem]

Wait, what part are we calling the "clutch". Nothing on the diagram is labeled as such.

Suspect he means The AR. The AR is sort of a clutch technically, wouldn't be the term I'd use because the 4th gen SS reels have an actual (low quality) clutch, and that may confuse some. But its not technically wrong.

[elcarlstono]

So what part in here shouldn't i grease?
http://www.scottsbt.com/catalog/store/images/pennparts/schematics/4400ss.pdf

[elcarlstono]

I assume its the little brass post on which the dog (4) sits on?

[philaroman]

sorry, you said "new style A/R" which I ASSumed meant "instant" (zero back-play),
usually called a Roller Bearing or Roller Clutch Assembly or Clutch / Sleeve Assembly (Penn)
if your reel doesn't have that, forget what I said, except "too much grease"
old-style dog/ratchet(4,10) doesn't like that either (dog gets stuck & spring is intentionally weak so it's not too loud)
just have to find the Goldie Locks Zone among: spring tension for correct function, yet not too loud; light-enough lube on dog/post/spring for free movement; and heavy-enough grease around A/R for protection, applied so excess won't travel to the dog

[elcarlstono]

Correct, it has the "new-style" specific to the 4400SS, but not the newer found on the ssg. 

[JasonGotaProblem]

Don't grease the ratchet or the top of the bearing. Do grease the post the dog rests on. That ring sits below the ratchet and is pulled in the direction of the spin by the friction of the ratchet spinning. When the ratchet changes directions, the friction pulls the ring backward and the portion of the wire that sticks out from the ring and into the dog pulls the dog into conflict with the ratchet going backward, the end result being an anti reverse mechanism.

[elcarlstono]

THanks! Working on reassembly today, hopefully.

[elcarlstono]

I think I see the problem (for myself).  The little "ring" under neath the ratchet is ? shaped ( the dot).  The hooked section rotates around the underneath of the ratchet.  When pressure is put against the inside of lower straight section, it "opens" the ring ever so slightly and it moves around freely.  When pressure is put against the outside of the straight section, it "closes" it ever so slightly and rotation is restricted, thus engaging the antireverse dog.  THis makes sense to me now. Guessing there was grease up in there which made it spin freely in either direction.
Thanks for helping me think this through.