I am so in on this slow pitch thing

[the rockfish ninja]

Say what you will about big Hentai eyes but my jigs with big eye dots get bit the most over the ones without. Just my observation over the past 2 seasons.

I don't think the action is any different, it's just easier to do with SPJ rods, more efficient, less fatigue, etc.

As for getting hits on the fall, I hear a lot of people using them say that but yesterday my whole limit was bit during the pitch.

I understand being contrarian, that's my mindset most of the time, this technique & system has completely changed the game for me.

[Benni3]

Great job,,,,,, jigging is a little more difficult,,,,but it you got it down pat,,,,,,,,,

[philaroman]

love BIG EYES...  I (prob. Dave, too) pref. realistic over stylized
unless you say, from experience, that painted-on splotches work as well...  
whatever eye is bigger, rather what looks more real

[the rockfish ninja]

love BIG EYES...  I (prob. Dave, too) pref. realistic over stylized
unless you say, from experience, that painted-on splotches work as well...  
whatever eye is bigger, rather what looks more real

I was in that camp for a long time until one year the stripers came in the bay really thick. My friends would go for all the realistic looking swimbaits, while I gave them a run for the money using a Kastmaser with a bucktail all year. Not very realistic looking and it slightly edged them out, it was all about the movement.

I believe when it comes to SPJ it's all about the flutter movement & glow pattern, when the thing is flashing in front of them and they see something that resembles an eye they go for it. I have several jigs with bite marks mostly around the eye.

There's an outfit in Florida that makes a realistic slow jig but it's not very popular, mostly the wierd looking stuff is what works & sells I guess.

[philaroman]

I only meant realistic eyes, but I see your point
plenty species have plain 'ole big dark spot/halo on the tail,
to fool predators into not going for the head

[jurelometer]

love BIG EYES...  I (prob. Dave, too) pref. realistic over stylized
unless you say, from experience, that painted-on splotches work as well...  
whatever eye is bigger, rather what looks more real

I was in that camp for a long time until one year the stripers came in the bay really thick. My friends would go for all the realistic looking swimbaits, while I gave them a run for the money using a Kastmaser with a bucktail all year. Not very realistic looking and it slightly edged them out, it was all about the movement.

I believe when it comes to SPJ it's all about the flutter movement & glow pattern, when the thing is flashing in front of them and they see something that resembles an eye they go for it. I have several jigs with bite marks mostly around the eye.

There's an outfit in Florida that makes a realistic slow jig but it's not very popular, mostly the wierd looking stuff is what works & sells I guess.

Agree on "realism" not mattering.  It is really hard to override our bias favoring what looks good to humans.   Visual acuity in rockfish is not very good, not that great for stripers either, plus you have to think about the water clarity and available light. Having high acuity is actually a trade off, giving up some sensitivity.  Realism and fancy paint jobs is mostly for catching humans in tackle shops. Profile, size and and contrast matters. My theory is to focus on what the fish can see.

The wiggle can be felt by the lateral line somewhere around 6 foot distance,  plus the  varying profile and flash from a wiggle might be a clue for the fish that it is seeing distressed prey and not just a drifting chunk of seaweed. Only the first fish to the prey gets to eat, so anything that signals an easy meal is worth trying in my book.

Regarding eyes:  The prevailing wisdom is that locating the eye helps the predator tell one end of the prey from the other.  If the prey item is a fish, it will go forward to escape.  Most fish don't do reverse very well.  So a predator will attack toward the head, and the black pupil is the cue for which side is the head.   So if a predator knows where the head is, the target might be more attractive.  Nobody knows for sure what a fish is thinking, but there are some clues in nature. Some more sedentary species will have false eye spots toward the tail, often a bit bigger than the real pupil (e.g. redfish). 

Schooling baitfish often have the spot just back of the head.  The theory is that in a tight packed school, all the eye dots make it hard to single out a target. Two "eyes" nearby are more confusing than one at each end in this situation.

So on a lure, a black spot might help, especially in terms of directing the bite towards one end of the lure. A real iris does not glow but is more reflective than the rest of the fish, so a glow iris on the eye might provide some contrast to better define the pupil. 

I tend to go a bit big on the pupils in my designs, without going overboard. I don't like super reflective irises on my flies, but care less on lures.  I am not big on lots of glow on lures, but that is mostly because most bait species don't glow like a flashlight.  YMMV


Tons of good papers on fish vision and a some on hearing, lateral line and smell.   Unfortunately most journals trap the research behind a paywall.

Not all slow pitch jigs get bit mostly on the drop.  but the flatter the fall, the more likely a drop bite.   I have witnessed this over and over again.  The  first couple winds can still be a drop bite by the way.  But it does make sense that rockfish will bite on the wind on a flatfall, especially if you are bouncing bottom a bit.  I don't fish flatfalls for rockfish, so now I am kind of intrigued by your observation.

Thanks for starting this thread.   Hopefully some of the folks that fish flatfalls for tuna can add their thoughts as well.  They do some interesting rigging, like bridle rigging a big circle hook above a flatfall.   This could be interesting to try in other situations.

-J.

[oc1]

I don't know man.  I'm ready to call it bunk.  I don't know the first thing about rockfish, but have some acquaintance with the black sea bass/snapper/grouper complex in the Gulf and S. Atlantic.  They and rockfish seem to fill a similar niche.

Anyway, people have been vertical jigging with Kastmasters, Hopkins spoon, diamond jigs and ther such metal for about a century.  Albeit, the spoon or jig is likely to be tipped with a strip bait teaser., but it's not high-speed jigging.  Like Sheridan says, you see soft baits doing the same thing now days.

Perhaps slow pitch jigging is not a new invention but a fad.  Perhaps it's nothing more than a renewed appreciation of good presentation.

The use of an assist hook is something new though.  It is new in jigging and it's new in plugging, live lining and other techniques.

I guess another new thing is fighting fish with a grossly under-powered rod.  In the the link above, the guy is pointing the rod at the fish and pulling up with the reel.  Might be new. but it's also stupid.

-steve

[jurelometer]

I don't know man.  I'm ready to call it bunk.  I don't know the first thing about rockfish, but have some acquaintance with the black sea bass/snapper/grouper complex in the Gulf and S. Atlantic.  They and rockfish seem to fill a similar niche.

Anyway, people have been vertical jigging with Kastmasters, Hopkins spoon, diamond jigs and ther such metal for about a century.  Albeit, the spoon or jig is likely to be tipped with a strip bait teaser., but it's not high-speed jigging.  Like Sheridan says, you see soft baits doing the same thing now days.

Perhaps slow pitch jigging is not a new invention but a fad.  Perhaps it's nothing more than a renewed appreciation of good presentation.

The use of an assist hook is something new though.  It is new in jigging and it's new in plugging, live lining and other techniques.

I guess another new thing is fighting fish with a grossly under-powered rod.  In the the link above, the guy is pointing the rod at the fish and pulling up with the reel.  Might be new. but it's also stupid.

-steve

There is definitely a ridiculous amount of hype involved, even by fishing tackle standards.   The whole jigging system with specialized reels,rods, hats and underwear is definitely overkill.  But there are things that you can do with these jigs that you cannot do with a diamond jig, Kastmaster, Hopkins, or Salas. 

I was just about to agree with you on the rod, but then remembered that open water fly fishing (which I lurve) also falls into the "grossly underpowered rod" category.  Glass houses, you know.

-J

[the rockfish ninja]

I don't know man.  I'm ready to call it bunk.  I don't know the first thing about rockfish, but have some acquaintance with the black sea bass/snapper/grouper complex in the Gulf and S. Atlantic.  They and rockfish seem to fill a similar niche.

Anyway, people have been vertical jigging with Kastmasters, Hopkins spoon, diamond jigs and ther such metal for about a century.  Albeit, the spoon or jig is likely to be tipped with a strip bait teaser., but it's not high-speed jigging.  Like Sheridan says, you see soft baits doing the same thing now days.

Perhaps slow pitch jigging is not a new invention but a fad.  Perhaps it's nothing more than a renewed appreciation of good presentation.

The use of an assist hook is something new though.  It is new in jigging and it's new in plugging, live lining and other techniques.

I guess another new thing is fighting fish with a grossly under-powered rod.  In the the link above, the guy is pointing the rod at the fish and pulling up with the reel.  Might be new. but it's also stupid.

-steve

Oh quite the contrary my friend, cranking them up with a top notch jigging reel is by far so much more efficient than lift & crank fighting. Watching & feeling the rod dance with the head shakes while you bring it to the boat is great.

Like I said before, I'm a skeptic by nature, old school in a lot of angling, but this is a lock for me and no way a "fad".

Here's some vids out of Japan & Florida that display the techniques & results, you be the judge if it's innovation, old hat, or just some way to sell more fishing gear.

[jurelometer]

Oh quite the contrary my friend, cranking them up with a top notch jigging reel is by far so much more efficient than lift & crank fighting. Watching & feeling the rod dance with the head shakes while you bring it to the boat is great.

I think that maybe that jigging setup came with a package of Koolaid 

A jigging reel is just a normal conventional reel on the narrow side.   And take it from someone who has pulled on big fish with a bendy rod,  it is not more efficient than a standard rod by any stretch of the imagination.

Now, you might find that it is more fun (and that is the best argument in favor of any style of fishing) but it is not more mechanically efficient.  The bend in the rod stores and then release your effort to lift the fish without doing any lifting  That is pretty much the definition of wasted effort  If you see videos of large powerful fish on jigging rods (not groupers that float up once the swim bladder starts expanding, you will see that they use a point and wind technique, complimented with pulling the reel toward the body to gain line for winding (arm pumping).

If the fish is too big to wind directly in, you have to do some sort of pumping.  If the fish is straight down, you have to lean over the rail and lift vertically, which is hardly ergonomic or mechanically efficient (ask me how I know).  Once you get the fish near the boat, having a stiffer rod to guide the fish in for landing is essential.  If you short stroke a stiffer rod on the pump, you don't have to deal much with the negatives of leverage. At higher drag settings, there is plenty of spring still available in the rod, which really wears down a fish and minimizes the risk of breaking off or opening up the hook hole.


It won't matter so much  for winding in a 3 lb Copper rockfish that does not put up much of a fight, but try a 30 lb yellowtail of a 50 lb yellowfin on the same rod.

I am with you on the jigs, but the rods are a compromise, giving up many useful aspects in order to provide that slow soft bend that will in theory help the jigging action.  Plus the extra fun that some folks get by putting a big bend in the rod from a smaller fish.

My theory is that part of the allure of this style of fishing is that the rod makes a small fish feel like a big fish, which can be a popular antribute in one of the many depleted fisheries on this planet.

So what was the jig that you were using, or is that a secret ?


-J.

[oc1]

I can't help but think of our photo of the month.  Lee trying to pull a tuna out of the mouth of a shark with a slow pitch rod.

This is actually all good news for me.  On my way to a productive flat I routinely pass over a ledge but it's only fifty feet.  The rig in hand is a 10-11 ft fly rod blank built for baitcasting.  If you want a rod that loads easily and takes some time to rebound, then this is it.  I'm sure to try slow pitching a small jig next time.
-steve

[the rockfish ninja]

Oh quite the contrary my friend, cranking them up with a top notch jigging reel is by far so much more efficient than lift & crank fighting. Watching & feeling the rod dance with the head shakes while you bring it to the boat is great.

I think that maybe that jigging setup came with a package of Koolaid 

A jigging reel is just a normal conventional reel on the narrow side.   And take it from someone who has pulled on big fish with a bendy rod,  it is not more efficient than a standard rod by any stretch of the imagination.

Now, you might find that it is more fun (and that is the best argument in favor of any style of fishing) but it is not more mechanically efficient.  The bend in the rod stores and then release your effort to lift the fish without doing any lifting  That is pretty much the definition of wasted effort  If you see videos of large powerful fish on jigging rods (not groupers that float up once the swim bladder starts expanding, you will see that they use a point and wind technique, complimented with pulling the reel toward the body to gain line for winding (arm pumping).

If the fish is too big to wind directly in, you have to do some sort of pumping.  If the fish is straight down, you have to lean over the rail and lift vertically, which is hardly ergonomic or mechanically efficient (ask me how I know).  Once you get the fish near the boat, having a stiffer rod to guide the fish in for landing is essential.  If you short stroke a stiffer rod on the pump, you don't have to deal much with the negatives of leverage. At higher drag settings, there is plenty of spring still available in the rod, which really wears down a fish and minimizes the risk of breaking off or opening up the hook hole.


It won't matter so much  for winding in a 3 lb Copper rockfish that does not put up much of a fight, but try a 30 lb yellowtail of a 50 lb yellowfin on the same rod.

I am with you on the jigs, but the rods are a compromise, giving up many useful aspects in order to provide that slow soft bend that will in theory help the jigging action.  Plus the extra fun that some folks get by putting a big bend in the rod from a smaller fish.

My theory is that part of the allure of this style of fishing is that the rod makes a small fish feel like a big fish, which can be a popular antribute in one of the many depleted fisheries on this planet.

So what was the jig that you were using, or is that a secret ?


-J.

It is physically easier to point & crank than it is to lift & crank, I'm old with bad discs and its obvious to me.

We don't get Yellowtail or Yellowfin up here, if you look at my report it was about rockfish, although I've pulled lingcod with this method and still didn't have to lift & pump.

I never liked Koolaid, even when I was a kid.

... and I only give out jig info to true believers.

[Swami805]

Here's some mega baits, 3.5 oz to 6 oz.  pretty similar except for the shape, not as much flutter on the sink I'd imagine and a treble on the bottom. I haven't lost one for a couple trips since it's easy to tell the difference between a fish and a snag with braid. I'd say 90% of bites are on the drop
I use a 9' rod rated 12-30lb with a soft tip but plenty of backbone. The advantage of the longer rod is a higher lift for jigging and having the line a little farther away from the boat
I was fishing next to a guy a couple trips ago who was slow pitching and had all the equipment, it looked fun and we had about the same results. His rod was bend thru to the handle so he was straight grinding the fish up.
It looks like a fun way to fish for sure and your results speak for themselves. I have a couple seeker hurcules rods that are pretty parabolic, I'll have to give those a try.

[the rockfish ninja]

Here's some mega baits, 3.5 oz to 6 oz.  pretty similar except for the shape, not as much flutter on the sink I'd imagine and a treble on the bottom. I haven't lost one for a couple trips since it's easy to tell the difference between a fish and a snag with braid. I'd say 90% of bites are on the drop
I use a 9' rod rated 12-30lb with a soft tip but plenty of backbone. The advantage of the longer rod is a higher lift for jigging and having the line a little farther away from the boat
I was fishing next to a guy a couple trips ago who was slow pitching and had all the equipment, it looked fun and we had about the same results. His rod was bend thru to the handle so he was straight grinding the fish up.
It looks like a fun way to fish for sure and your results speak for themselves. I have a couple seeker hurcules rods that are pretty parabolic, I'll have to give those a try.

Casting jigs is what they call them here, cause you can cast them from shore or boat. They do flutter, just a bit faster, I use a 40gr off a pier to work on my pitch, works on juvenile predators down at the pilings.

You can get your feet wet with any decent conventional and whatever parabolic rod you have until you decide if you want a dedicated jigging rod, but flatfalls are pretty unique. Jigging World & others have inexpensive ones that work probably as well as the overpriced stuff from Japan, (I have both) but i think that's the starting point cause they all act differently in the water.



Here's what I'm working with, some of it's one drop bang, some is window dressing, and 50% hasn't gotten wet yet because by the 2nd or 3rd jig I try I find the one they want and it gets pretty automatic. The double assist hook thing pretty important too, I found about 75% of my last limit hit the top hook at the eye.

[alantani]

bluefin killer......