alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Maximizing freespool on an Ambassadeur
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
November 29, 2020, 02:32:17 AM *
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Author Topic: Maximizing freespool on an Ambassadeur  (Read 314 times)
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ReelFishingProblems
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Nick - Arlington, VA


« on: November 21, 2020, 09:44:41 AM »

"If you have a Dremel and some metal polish, you can get quite a bit more out of it as it is.  Polish the spool cap shims, inside of the line guide, line guide pawl, spool shaft ends, brake drum, inside of the pinion gear, worm gear end, and idler gear stud.  Use a tiny drop of oil inside the spool bushings, small drop on the idler gear stud, two drops in the worm gear, one drop each in the spool caps, and the inside of the pinion gear, and you'll have a screamer.  TSI 321 suggested.  Additionally you may want to use the lightest brake blocks available or even do without them altogether.  It'll perform pretty dang good and cost an hour of your time.  Here's my own personal 4500, two spool bearings with everything else polished, no brake blocks installed.  Keep in mind this is the more contemporary design with the fixed axle." - Tincanary

I have read quite a few Ambassadeur topics that address free spool. The quote above from Tincanary is the best advice I have found.

I am building an Ambassadeur 6500 C3 CT MAG from parts, so there is a chance that some of the tolerances are just enough out of alignment to interfere with free spool. I opened up the bearings, cleaned out all the old grey colored lubricant/grease and added TSI 321. The spool on the axle (not put back in the reel) spins for about 40 seconds. When I put everything back together it drops to 12 seconds.

The C3CT does not have a levelwind mechanism so that takes a bunch out of the equation. I did polish the spool cap shims, spool shaft, and spool shaft bushing (I have the extra long bushing since there is no plastic clicker/levelwind gear on the spool shaft). I removed the brake blocks. I don't have a Dremel attachment small enough to polish the inside of the pinion gear or brake drum, but I used 0000 steel wool. I'm hoping someone will tell me a magic process I missed instead of the spool shaft being ever so slightly bent. If it comes down to it, a stainless steel spool shaft just may be the ticket. Also better bearings is probably not a bad idea either.

This is more of a fun project than a necessity for fishing, but doesn't hurt for me to learn how to get insane free spool times.

Nick

  


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« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 11:28:53 AM by ReelFishingProblems » Logged
Ron Jones
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2020, 10:27:09 AM »

A valiant effort for sure. I have used a marking liquid (magic marker works if need be) on spool shafts to see where the adverse contact is or to identify a bent shaft.

Also, you need to be very careful with all that polishing, it is very easy to polish something out of round or heat it enough to warp a little and then you have made things worse as opposed to better.

Good luck.
The Man
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Ronald Jones
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tincanary
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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2020, 12:35:48 PM »

The Magtrax braking system found in these reels is always applying braking force regardless of setting.  It's a linear braking system, applying power throughout the entire cast ensuring the spool behaves.  I have a couple reels with it, a 4600 C4 Mag and a 4600 C5, neither of them free spool like my centrifugally braked reels.  If you want to test it, remove the Magtrax assembly and see how much more the spool will spin.  This iteration of Magtrax always has the magnets close to the spool.  The slider adjusts the angle in which they sit in relation to the spool allowing for an narrow range of braking power.  Newer versions of Magtrax found in the low profile reels work differently.  In those, the magnets are moved closer to the spool to increase braking power or further away to decrease it.  This gives the brake a wider range of usable power with near 0 braking applied at the minimum setting.  The Knobby Mag works in similar fashion to the Magtrax II and III system in low profile reels.  Since the distance from spool to magnet can be adjusted, this makes them capable of more free spool.  There are plenty of YouTube videos of Knobby magged reels achieving very long free spool times, because they can dial the braking power way down.
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ReelFishingProblems
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Nick - Arlington, VA


« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2020, 12:43:02 PM »

I havenít got the magtrax pieces yet, it has an open slit on the left side plate right now.
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tincanary
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« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2020, 12:49:14 PM »

It sounds like you're getting friction from somewhere.  Is the face of the spool bushing dirty?  I know this may sound dumb, but what about spool tension?  Do you have it set to where there's a tiny bit of lateral play?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 12:50:11 PM by tincanary » Logged
Swami805
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« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2020, 01:34:29 PM »

Might want to make sure the frame is square too, the wider the spool the more it will effect free spool. You should be getting much better free spool than that with a CT
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ReelFishingProblems
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Nick - Arlington, VA


« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2020, 02:51:16 PM »

The spool bushing is polished inside and out. It looks awful pretty. Maybe some sort of shim between the spool bushing and the bearing would reduce friction even more.
I have messed with the caps on both sides quite a bit, it only seems to give or take a few seconds.

It is possible the frame isnít square anymore, it is a used frame. This would be the perfect excuse to get an AKS one piece frame.

My gut tells me itís the shaft or the frame, but I donít have the experience to back that thought up completely. Maybe Iíll start with a new shaft and go from there.
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tincanary
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« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2020, 04:23:53 PM »

You can find out if it's the shaft fairly easy.  Loosen up the crank side spool tension knob and see how easy it is to wiggle the spool.  If it takes a little effort to move, the axle may be bent.  I had this issue on a reel I did, spool wouldn't spin as well as it should have.  When I'd loosen the tension knob, it took a fair amount of effort to wiggle the spool.  I swapped in a new axle and it was nice and free.
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ReelFishingProblems
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Nick - Arlington, VA


« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2020, 04:59:23 PM »

Okay, I'm baffled.

I backed off the tension caps, the spool moved left to right. Free spool was still 10-12 seconds. Decided to use the cage from my 1970 6000 and got 16 seconds of free spool. Put the CT cage on and I'm getting 45-50 seconds every time now. Something had to be binding/rubbing or there was a little gremlin trapped in there. Whatever it was, I'm pretty darned happy right now. Now if I can get it over one minute. This is probably where better bearings will help out.

Nick
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oc1
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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2020, 08:03:54 PM »

Sometimes it's telling to tilt the reel 90 degrees so the spool is only riding one side.  Then check the free spin time.  Reverse it all and check the free spin time on when it is only riding on the other side.

Also, if you have a side plate removed, hold the spool vertically and spin the side plate on the spool spindle.  Then repeat for the other side.

-steve
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Bryan Young
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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2020, 09:28:21 PM »

Thereís a guy, Tom Taiton, from Australia that hot rods Abus and he can get crazy freespools.

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Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
0119
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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2020, 05:36:21 AM »

That's Tom! He runs a Facebook group, "We you loves the Abu Ambassadeur".  Great group. Real works of art there and lots of connections to Asian companies who make specialty parts.
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tincanary
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« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2020, 07:42:50 AM »

That's some good free spool for sure.  Amazing what a little elbow grease will do, much cheaper than buying flavor of the month bearings. Another trick you could try, put a drop of oil on the face of the spool bushing where it makes contact with the spool.  That should give you a little more spin time.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 07:46:29 AM by tincanary » Logged
thorhammer
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« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2020, 07:45:09 AM »

Nick, have you thrown it? That might help wear everything in a little- you can spin by hand all day but nothing like the rpm slinging a 5oz.
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ReelFishingProblems
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Nick - Arlington, VA


« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2020, 08:23:27 AM »

John, I havenít even put it on a rod. I have the 12í Ocean Master and some lead. Maybe I should see what happens
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