Jaws brand blanks?

[gstours]

Has anyone build any vertical jigging rods from this brand of rod blanks?    I am interested in these blanks as they seem to have pretty good garantie from the manufacturer firstly. 
  Is the parabolic design common for vertical jigging rods?  The prices seem in line with middle priced blanks as well.
As shown in the Acid rod on line catalog.    http://acidrod.com/jaws.html
   Any thoughts or info with experience will be appreciated.

[jurelometer]

Yes.  These new style vertical jigging rods are all about being bendy.  Don't know this brand.

Don't forget to make one of your fishing videos if you build one.  I want to see somebody try to walk a fat halibut  around the outboard with one of those  rubber band rods.

One other tip: The best way to deal with a big heavy fish on one of these rods is to hand it off to the guy standing next to you.  The perfect way to wear out a guest who isn't quite ready to quit when it is time to head back to the barn.

IMHO, a bendy rod will have less and less effect on jig action as the depth, current, and line diameter increases.  I was preaching this in the slow pitch thread.

Just the opinion of a contrarian...

-J

[gstours]

Thanks Dave for your reply.    Rubber bands must be new school 🏫?   The first thing that comes to mind is under gunned.   Possibly under gunnel ?   But it's a possibility for someone as we all fish differently and there's many species of fish 🐟 .
  In fishing rods the person building a rod from a blank generally cannot compare the absolute outcome and compare the selection to a factory finished rod.   This adds to my frustration.
  I like to generally flex the blank or rod and get a seat of the pants 👖 feeling from the gut,  and need steering from someone with experience to find that path.
  Other wise buying a factory rod might be my best bet.   Thanks.   
I want to build a jig rod this winter for a project and test it with your jigs and tell a story.
    Some of my specs are;
6 feet length,  one piece,  my reels are 50-65# braided,  jigs planning 10-20 oz,  not crazy?
  The blank can compare to the shimano trivela heavy or, And the penn rampart 6 ft heavy jig rods as these are the finished rods I can look at in a store.
   Anyone can chime in with advice,  just saying.

[boon]

There's a lot that goes into a jig rod... long and short is that yes, most of them are fairly parabolic. But there's parabolic noodles, and parabolic with an unbelievable amount of lifting power. A good jig rod is the latter - if the blank is well designed, it will load up to a working curve and then more or less stop as the hugely powerful butt section comes into play.
A short parabolic rod reduces the length of the lever that the fish has to work against you with... for what it's worth, a 6' jig rod is considered long; my heavy ones are 5'2-5'3.

This video illustrates a light parabolic jig rod with tons of lifting power quite nicely:



Like any rod, they have limitations... getting around an outboard is a good example.

EDIT: Ok, some more bits to this.

Jigging 10-20oz is a BIG ask. A rod with the stiffness to impart a good action to a 20oz (566g) jig is going to overpower a 10oz (283g) jig. Most jig rods that I have played with tend to have a "centre" weight that they are really nice to jig with, and then it falls away either side. The heavier the rod is, the wider the range tends to be, but it's fairly uncommon to find a rod that will work nicely for more than about a 200g range. +/- 100g from the "ideal" weight is a pretty good guideline. Where a range is given, find the middle of that and it's probably your ideal weight, e.g. a 150-250 is probably best @ 200g. You can exceed the rating, but you have to alter the action... for example, I have a rather nice 150-400g rated rod (which is hopeless at the 150g end, really) and it will jig 500g BUT I have to slow the action down to something closer to a long-fall slow-jig technique because the rod doesn't recover fast enough to full-speed mechanical jig it.

Worth noting also that as water depth increases the resistance on the jig does too, and you may find that the rod struggles to impart a good action on jigs at the top end of the range as depth increases significantly, however may suddenly jig a smaller lure a bit better... although unfortunately as depth increases you probably want to use a larger jig  

[Dominick]

In my opinion, using a bendy rod like that is more work than is necessary to bring a fish to the boat.  He should try those bendy rods on 30-40 lb tuna.  Did you notice how exhausted that guy was in the video on one fish?  I won't use one of those bendy rods.  Dominick

[boon]

In my opinion, using a bendy rod like that is more work than is necessary to bring a fish to the boat.  He should try those bendy rods on 30-40 lb tuna.  Did you notice how exhausted that guy was in the video on one fish?  I won't use one of those bendy rods.  Dominick

The whole point of the bendy rods is they put less pressure on the angler. Plenty of big tuna landed with them... 200lb+ models; I know of a 550lb+ fish that was landed on a jig rod a few years back (spinning reel too). They are insanely powerful rods, the setup in that video would demolish a 40lb Tuna, I suspect it wouldn't even pull line off the spool.

EDIT: This thread has some nice examples https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=31644.0

[Swami805]

Never fooled with a Jaws blank, Acidrod is a legit company though and wouldn't sell them if they are junk

[jurelometer]

There's a lot that goes into a jig rod... long and short is that yes, most of them are fairly parabolic. But there's parabolic noodles, and parabolic with an unbelievable amount of lifting power. A good jig rod is the latter - if the blank is well designed, it will load up to a working curve and then more or less stop as the hugely powerful butt section comes into play.
A short parabolic rod reduces the length of the lever that the fish has to work against you with... for what it's worth, a 6' jig rod is considered long; my heavy ones are 5'2-5'3.

As you shorten the length and stiffen the butt on a jigging rod, it starts to lose the characteristics that might make it more effective for working jigs, but you gain fish fighting capabilities.   But the rod is also becoming more like a traditional rod at that point, and the argument becomes less interesting.  I think that it is fair to claim that a shorter jigging rod can be made efficient enough to land big fish, but that is a far cry from being the most efficient rod design for this activity.  My only beef is with the claim that a bendy rod is somehow the most mechanically efficient design for fighting fish.

Getting back to the physics of jigging rods, a shorter lever will decrease the mechanical disadvantage.  So far so good.  But, any bend that comes out of the rod as you lower it to enable winding is energy that was lost, and therefore means more effort required to land the fish.  Not efficient.  If the rod had a fairly sudden shift from a stiff butt section to a bendy tip, then this lost energy would be minimized, but the load would be concentrated which tends to make the rod break, so there has to be a compromise, and I haven't seen any jigging rods with a sudden change in bend shape.   

The most mechanically efficient rod for strictly fighting a fish up and down is going to be a short stiff rod with a two speed reel that can be railed. You use your body weight/gravity on the other side of the fulcrum- no effort. A sturdy 3 foot  broomstick would be fine.  As we add some other requirements for following the fish around the boat, shock absorption, boat rail height, jig action, casting range, use in a rod holder for drifting or trolling, and so on, the ideal attributes conflict and there has to be a compromise.  Each fishery and personal preferences will change the equation.


I like to ski.  I have found that I enjoy my skiing the most with a single all-around off-trail model  that is not the best at powder, crud, hardpack, or on piste, but is actually pretty good at all of them.  I have friends that prefer to have a full quiver of skis optimized for each condition.  They gain some advantage, but only if they guess right on where we end up skiing.   And the ski manufacturers like them better than me.    I see jigging rods in the same light.  You can't argue with the laws of physics, but it is equally futile telling other people what gear they should prefer.

This video illustrates a light parabolic jig rod with tons of lifting power quite nicely:

Cute yellow rod.  I would suggest adding some Hello Kitty decals.

But seriously, that guy should trade the gloves in for some eye protection...

And a 100 lb skinny person would not be able to do this, but give them a two speed and a rail rod... right back in the game.

Like any rod, they have limitations... getting around an outboard is a good example.

EDIT: Ok, some more bits to this.

Jigging 10-20oz is a BIG ask. A rod with the stiffness to impart a good action to a 20oz (566g) jig is going to overpower a 10oz (283g) jig. Most jig rods that I have played with tend to have a "centre" weight that they are really nice to jig with, and then it falls away either side. The heavier the rod is, the wider the range tends to be, but it's fairly uncommon to find a rod that will work nicely for more than about a 200g range. +/- 100g from the "ideal" weight is a pretty good guideline. Where a range is given, find the middle of that and it's probably your ideal weight, e.g. a 150-250 is probably best @ 200g. You can exceed the rating, but you have to alter the action... for example, I have a rather nice 150-400g rated rod (which is hopeless at the 150g end, really) and it will jig 500g BUT I have to slow the action down to something closer to a long-fall slow-jig technique because the rod doesn't recover fast enough to full-speed mechanical jig it.

Worth noting also that as water depth increases the resistance on the jig does too, and you may find that the rod struggles to impart a good action on jigs at the top end of the range as depth increases significantly, however may suddenly jig a smaller lure a bit better... although unfortunately as depth increases you probably want to use a larger jig  

Good info.  I think it is best to describe these rods as specialized, and anything that is specialized is going to tend to have more limited use cases.  The better designed models can be more versatile, but the tradeoffs will always be there.  And specialized means you need more rods in your quiver. The folks that like trying new gear probably see this as an advantage.  Shimano and Jigging Master do for sure


But one nit:  it is friction on the line and not the weight of the jig that becomes the biggest issue in imparting action on the jig at depth and in current.  At some point the action comes entirely from winding and freespool, and the bending and unbending of the rod does not move the jig.


Which brings us back to Gary and the Jaws blanks.   I am going to guess that speed winding is not something that is going to work well on halibut- these are ambush style predators that are not going to run down a fast moving lure in open water.  I have not fished for Pacific halibut, but if they are like California halibut,bounce jigging off/near the bottom is the preferred method.  In this case a somewhat stiffer rod might actually increase the depth at which the jig action can still be affected by lifting and dropping the rod tip. 

In additions to the limitations mentioned by Boon and myself, we should also discuss using rod holders.  When using a tube through gunnel style holder, the bend in the rod can wedge it into place in the tube. Stiffer butts work better in all types of rod holders.   The common build style with these rods is to use split rear grips, which is no-bueno for rod holders.

Looking at the video that Boon posted and a couple others, I see an acute bend that appears to be caused by the stiffness at the reel seat.  I would pay attention to where the manufacturer expects the reel seat to be located, and might also consider some burl cork or similar to provide a more flexible arbor for the reel seat.

I was looking through my depleted stash of conventional rods and found a couple shorter moderate/medium action Calstars: one E-glass and one Graphiter (fiberglass carbon fiber bend).  These actually looked like they might make decent slow pitch jigging rods, while still having enough of a traditional bottom half to make the rods more versatile.

Considering the conditions that Gary fishes in and the lure sizes needed, I would personally shy away from the more extreme jigging models, unless I just wanted to see for myself what it is like to fish with them (maybe try jigging for salmon with one of these?).    I would go for the choice that is not too long and has  less "parabolic" bend.

Or you could just take a moderate action west coat live bait stick, and replace the decals with some Hello Kitty stickers   Nobody will ever know, especially if you paint the blank safety yellow

On the Jaws blanks- The Acid Rods page says "Un-breakable - Lifetime Guarantee" but the fine print looks more like the standard rod warranty terms against manufacturing defects, not any breakage - and you cover shipping both ways.   

Another question- do folks spiral wrap these rods?

-J

[boon]

Lots of good info here Appreciate the considered discourse.

It's funny you mention skis. I'm a pretty avid skier, and I definitely fit into the category of "specific tool for the job". I have powder skis, mid-fats, park skis, long radius groomer bashers, and short radius groomer bashers. Same as my fishing rods... I have long ago given up on versatility in a fishing setup. I don't expect to troll with a slow-jig rod, nor do I expect my inshore bait setup to work a jig properly. Can it be done? Absolutely. But if you have the money and the inclination (and enough spots in the rocket launcher on your boat) then I strongly believe in using specialist gear for the job it is intended for. I'll routinely take 4-5 rods for a day-trip, especially if I will be targeting different fish using different techniques.

As an example, casting performance, and how the rod fishes from a rod holder, are complete non-considerations for a jig rod for me, because I solely fish it straight up and down, and never from a rod holder (I mean... how does one work a jig from a rodholder?). Sometimes you can find rods that are complementary for multiple techniques, but where the design goals are diametrically opposed, I find that "compromise" rods tend to be so compromised as to make them less enjoyable for any of the supposed purposes, especially if you have experienced the specialised gear.

But, going around in a circle... with the way that I understand Halibut are fished for, I'm not really certain that mechanical jigging, as a technique, and being the place that short parabolic rods come into their own, is going to be terribly effective.

Spiral wrapping is fairly common on high-end mechanical jig rods. Jig Star Twisted Sista and Jigging Master Super Tornado are two that spring to mind; I think quite a few of Kil Song's Black Hole jig rods are spiral wrapped too.

For what it's worth.... honestly, I don't think these rods are as bendy as people are making out. In most of the pictures/videos you see they're under insane amounts of pressure; the type of thing that would turn most regular rods into an impromptu 2-piece model.

[Dominick]

In my opinion, using a bendy rod like that is more work than is necessary to bring a fish to the boat.  He should try those bendy rods on 30-40 lb tuna.  Did you notice how exhausted that guy was in the video on one fish?  I won't use one of those bendy rods.  Dominick

The whole point of the bendy rods is they put less pressure on the angler. Plenty of big tuna landed with them... 200lb+ models; I know of a 550lb+ fish that was landed on a jig rod a few years back (spinning reel too). They are insanely powerful rods, the setup in that video would demolish a 40lb Tuna, I suspect it wouldn't even pull line off the spool.

EDIT: This thread has some nice examples https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=31644.0

I respectfully disagree that those bendy rods put less pressure on the angler.  While it does seem easier to tug on a bendy rod you are not moving the fish.  I have used both in fishing in Mexico.  I bring my own equipment but sometimes a fish will hit a boat rod that is bendy.  I find myself getting exhausted bringing in a 30 lb fish that should not have been that hard on a stiffer rod.  I am familiar wit Ksong's rods and watched his videos.  I won't use one of his bendy rods.  Again this is my opinion alone.   

Dave, you could have saved yourself some time and typing by just saying "I agree with Dominick."  Dominick

[boon]

I respectfully disagree that those bendy rods put less pressure on the angler.  While it does seem easier to tug on a bendy rod you are not moving the fish.  I have used both in fishing in Mexico.  I bring my own equipment but sometimes a fish will hit a boat rod that is bendy.  I find myself getting exhausted bringing in a 30 lb fish that should not have been that hard on a stiffer rod.  I am familiar wit Ksong's rods and watched his videos.  I won't use one of his bendy rods.  Again this is my opinion alone.   

Interesting - my experience has been somewhat opposite! My livebait stick is a slightly longer, relatively stiffer setup than my jig rods, and I find it noticeably more strenuous to fight virtually identical fish with. Out of interest, how do you tend to fight the fish - specifically the rod butt, in your armpit, in a gimbal, or rail-style?

[Jeri]

I have followed this thread with amusement, as we have similar discussions here on the various virtues of different surf blanks and their applications. With the final consensus being that no blank will ever suit everyone - the perfect blank is a pipedream. Some like rods stiffer than others, and vice versa, and you will never convince either party they are both wrong and right at the same time.

A classic example of the fact that fish can't tell what rod is being use was reported by a client the other day. He had bought a light surf rod for his youngster to use, and they were out on the beach, when a Bronzie picked up the small sardine bait that the youngster had cast out for Kob. 2 hours later, with much help from dad, the shark was brought to the beach and measured before release. Weight: 58lbs, on a super light 12'2-3oz surf rod, with 20lb line.

I just hope that the youngster doesn't grow up believing that 2-3oz surf rods are the ultimate Bronzie stick ....................

[jurelometer]

Dave, you could have saved yourself some time and typing by just saying "I agree with Dominick."  Dominick

I agree with Dominick.

You are right Domnick.  That was less work.

Interesting - my experience has been somewhat opposite! My livebait stick is a slightly longer, relatively stiffer setup than my jig rods, and I find it noticeably more strenuous to fight virtually identical fish with. Out of interest, how do you tend to fight the fish - specifically the rod butt, in your armpit, in a gimbal, or rail-style?

"Short stroking", and not lifting the rod all the way to parallel with the water is the ticket as the rod gets longer and stiffer. It requires more lifts per foot of line recovered, but less energy for the total fight, and the extra length/stiffness is also available when you need it at the end of the fight.  If the rod is long/stiff enough, and you lift high enough, the disadvantage from the loss of leverage is greater that the disadvantage from the extra bend in a jigging rod, and a jigging rod could end up being more efficient.

I think that railing is sort of a long range, big boat thing (not my bag), and the rails are fairly tall so a lot of it appears to be armpitting.  I use railing  when live baiting bigger yellowtail (AKA kingfish) and amberjack and tuna  from pangas (small boats).   But I haven't seen anyone else doing it where I fish in Mexico.  Very low slung lap belts are common, and waist high lap belts are also used.   When jigging, we are constantly switching between distance casting to boils and dropping, so a rail friendly rod is not an option unless you want to carry two jigging rods.  For me, less is more on a small boat.   But even with a casting rod, the less bendy rod will usually be better for fighting fish, if managed correctly.

Curious if Dominick has a different experience or will just say "I agree with Dave"

To be honest, based on your description, a shorter, fish fighting optimized jigging stick is probably starting to approach a fish fighting optimized traditional rod.  Probably more bendy, but converging closer to the same design.  Short is a huge advantage in a vertical fight.

A long bendy rod is the worst of both worlds in a vertical fight.  I like to tell other fly fishers that the only thing worse than not catching a yellowfin tuna on a fly rod is catching a yellowfin tuna on a fly rod   But for some reason, I really look forward to it, even if it is a really inefficient way to fish.  So from my glass house, I am not going to cast too many stones at the slow pitch crowd. 

I have followed this thread with amusement, as we have similar discussions here on the various virtues of different surf blanks and their applications. With the final consensus being that no blank will ever suit everyone - the perfect blank is a pipedream. Some like rods stiffer than others, and vice versa, and you will never convince either party they are both wrong and right at the same time.

Exactly.   Glad that we are entertaining you...   
-J

[Cor]

Just a comment on long viz short rods for my type of application, which is mainly surface based iron or plug fishing, from shore or from small boats (sort of Panga size).

When I started boat fishing for Yellowtail I simply took my shore rods 10 ft 6 inch strong backbone fast action beach rods on to a boat, as casting was the most important and we knew these rods could cast.

This proved a completely incorrect idea.   We also fish with near locked drags from shore, so did the same on boat.   The result was that when you hooked a fairly strong fish, the angler nearly got pulled overboard when the fish went down because the leverage of an unbending, long rod was totally against him.   Casting was not that hot either because on a unstable platform you can't really put the power in the cast....but that's another story.

So the solution was slightly shorter rod, not so strong and medium action to bring the bend of the rod closer to the angler and reduce the leverage.

I now use 9 ft6 inch medium action rods 30 lb line weight and looser drags and can fish like that all day and land large fish, it just takes a bit longer.   Also cast well with smaller devices.

Jigging, I know little about.

[gstours]

  Tanks for everyone chiming in about the jigging rod questions...       Actually i, may not even qualify to ask the question as my fishing to most isnt jigging as most folks see it......
   Again we arent talking about style,  its your input that I am interested in to short cut the search for something better than what I have.
       Tanks also to treat a rod like a ski and not a putter for easier understanding!!!!     So lets go on.   My fishing is primarily bottom fishing as the was it could be defined.  Not in rocks .  Not more than 5 meters from the bottom generally.  Not like most people fish jigs generally,  butt with some current floe generally,  this adds to the separation,  generally my jigs are 7-10 ounce at slack tide and the  12-16 oz an hour later and then more heavy as the tide runs in, oar out.   Just sayin.   
   Ive got rods that do most smaller jigs well.  Like many of you have said im finding out that jig rods are a specialized setup.  they have a happy spot.  Either way from that spot the angler may push the "wish button"  and switch rods,  or jigs, or move to a happier place as the water movement is predictable and the clock usually telles you what
your gonna do....
   most of my friends up her jig some,  generally when the tide is slack.   Usually using the same big bait rod/reel which is heavy, butt adequate to big bait fishing with heavy leads and big runn off.  Its not for me.  I like many here like both.   Sporty and Adequate.