alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial BKK Monster Circle hooks
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Author Topic: BKK Monster Circle hooks  (Read 888 times)
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knife
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« on: December 23, 2020, 07:59:55 PM »

Has anyone had any experience with BKK Monster Circle hooks?
Thanks in advance.


* bkk circle monster.jpg (82.02 KB, 972x828 - viewed 13 times.)
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alantani
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2020, 01:37:14 AM »

i'm sure they would work just fine. 
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boon
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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2020, 02:19:44 AM »

I'm a big fan of them. They have a similar shape to the Mustad 39950 which I am also fond of, but the wire is slightly flatter. I fish the 6/0 and 8/0 with live mackerel for Yellowtail Kingfish.

It is worth noting that the gape is not large, so I always bridle rig my baits with them. That said I always bridle rig anyway; better hookups and bait survival.

The downsides are that they're a pretty expensive hook at around $5 each, and even more for the "Drifting Special" that comes rigged with a swivel, and I wish they came in smaller sizes.

EDIT: With the drifting special, I'm not a massive fan of the thin ring on the leader end of the swivel, as compared to the thick wire of the hook. If I was using the drifting special I would want to use a thimble or armor spring on that end, which just adds more bulk to the terminal rig. Personal preference is a single crimp, gives the bait less to tow around.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2020, 02:24:48 AM by boon » Logged

knife
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2020, 08:35:42 AM »

Good morning! ((for me...)
Even here some fishermen claim that the steel wire of the ring is too thin and could cut the nylon ....
Would that be a big design mistake? Shocked
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alantani
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2020, 05:10:36 PM »

a spring scale and 80 pounds of weight would answer that question immediately. 
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jurelometer
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2020, 09:30:46 PM »

I think the more interesting question is why does the wire gauge of the hook have to be so large if the wire gauge of the rings can be so small?  And I doubt that the rings are fully tempered.

An interesting test might be to check where (and at what load) the failure under under load occurs.  This probably only needs to be tested with the hook bend around a metal bar simulating a corner hookup.  Any tip only hookup on a circle hook like this means that you are probably screwed by a tear out long before any bending would occur.   This needs to be done carefully with appropriate safety protocols.  Testing to deformation or full failure is not necessary.  If you can test to something like 150 -200% of your max drag, or breaking strength of your line/knots (whichever is lower), and hold for 15 minutes or so, you will find out all you need to know.

A lighter hook has advantages including  keeping a live bait lively longer.  I would suspect that with this setup either the rings need to be beefier, or the hook could be lighter.   I thought that one of the reasons for a heavy wire circle hook was to provide a larger bend radius in the leader, which allows for the usage of heavier, stiffer leader.  If not tying or crimping directly to the hook, a lighter hook may be feasible.

Small diameter rings with larger diameter stiff leader  can cause a crease to form that will eventually be the point of failure under load with loop knots.  I have had this happen to me more often than I care to admit when fly fishing small flies with heavy leaders.  It should probably be less severe with a knot that cinches to the rings and is not constantly being whiplashed by fly casting.

When  we cinch a knot around a ring or eye, the outside of the mono has to travel a longer distance than the inside, since elongation generally takes less energy than compression, the outside will elongate ( stretch).   The tighter the bend  (thinner ring wire gauge) and the thicker the leader, the greater the ratio of bend radii.   You get closer and closer to that crease problem.   So a thicker ring is better, and failure under load probably can be calculated with a proper material data sheet for the leader (which the manufacturer will never share).

In terms of abrasion:  abrasion is caused by friction which is a calculated by multiplying the  force by  the coefficient of friction (a constant that defines the relative "slipperiness" of the two surfaces).  The amount of surface area is irrelevant.  It is one of the non-intuitive features of friction.

If a thicker wire ring abrades the leader less, it is probably because it is easy to manufacture a smoother ring out of thicker wire,  or easier to detect scratches.  My bet leans toward problems more from deformation of the ring or leader rather than rough surface abrasion.   

If there is enough overkill in the leader breaking strength, this weakening should not matter as long as the knots are replaced at sufficient intervals.

Not trained in this stuff, so I could be wrong, but this is how I interpret the science involved...


-J
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MarkT
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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2020, 10:18:55 PM »

That's the kind of rig you use for chunking, not for live bait.  The chunk doesn't care about the gauge of the wire!  I've seen some Charlie Brown hooks that are pretty small by the eye and the knots hold up just fine on big tuna!  I'm thinking that ring is fine.  Just use a knot that goes through the ring twice like a Springer.
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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2020, 12:04:40 PM »

Thanks for your support!
Abaut knot with duble turn on the ring, you open another page...springer, palomar, chain.... Smiley
I personally tested only the chain knot on the dynamometer, almost 100% of the declared weight!
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Keta
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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2020, 04:49:40 PM »

Test a Springer knot.  I have only pulled them by hand with 10# line so far but it seems to be a strong knot.  I need to put my tester back together and test the knot with 50 and 100 pound line.
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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2020, 10:23:52 PM »

What's with these dynamometer and line testing gizmos.  Please show phots if the opportunity arises.
-steve
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boon
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2020, 10:28:57 PM »


When  we cinch a knot around a ring or eye, the outside of the mono has to travel a longer distance than the inside, since elongation generally takes less energy than compression, the outside will elongate ( stretch).   The tighter the bend  (thinner ring wire gauge) and the thicker the leader, the greater the ratio of bend radii.   You get closer and closer to that crease problem.   So a thicker ring is better, and failure under load probably can be calculated with a proper material data sheet for the leader (which the manufacturer will never share).

This is the crux of the issue. The larger the wire diameter at the eye, the less difference (as a percentage) between the inside and outside of the leader. A thicker leader compounds the problem - at the extreme end, you get to a point where the leader is essentially folded back on itself, instead of following the circumference of the wire.
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