Jig rod guides recommendation.

[gstours]

  I am in need of your help in ordering some casting rod guides for a 250-400g jig rod build this winter. 
      Normal rods for me are roller guided, and casting rods usually have the normal factory type of build,  butt i,m  wondering about the first guide mainly right now of being tall enough to sorta equal a stripper guide in height.   What size guide should that be ?   
  Ive got Alps guides that I like on an Okuma Cedros jig rod,  butt the ones in catalog listing seem different. 
     Just wondering.   Here,s a PreThanks.

[Swami805]

I like the alps guides, usually #20 for the stripper guide is about right but depends on the reel you're using
American tackle has a new line of boat rod guides with tall frames so you can use a smaller ring. Haven't gotten a chance to get my hands on a set but they make a high quality product. They have them in titanium too

[thorhammer]

Gary, I like a 16 or 20mm, depend on what size rig you are building and "height" of reel, and whether you will acid-wrap. For the UC Raptor acid wrap I built for Georgia Mike, I used a 20 stripper, as he has using a size 20 reel, which is tall; all my commercial rods that aren't acid wrapped have 16mm stripper. I use a double uni to leader so if I'm building, I typically go a size up on everything for easy clearance as I'm the guy replacing knocked-out inserts . If I was jigging those car hoods like you, I'd go with 20-16-12-12-12-12-12 tip, acid-wrap. Everyone has own opinion, but I use that 20 stripper for acid wrap because I can start the offset a few degrees and still have the right hand edge be in the same spot relative to centerline of the blank as a perpendicular (non-offset) 16 stripper would be.

[thorhammer]

Sheridan was typing at same time as me and a much more concise answer

[Jeri]

If you are at all concerned about leader knot issues, knocking out inserts; then most bigger companies have variants of their guides with a slightly cupped frame. AmTac call their system 'Ring Lock', Fuji call their "Concept', and PacBay have a frame style that have the cupped frames. Virtually cures inserts from being popped out by leader knots, even on high stress surf casting rods and big leader knots.

Recently started to use the new frame coatings on Fuji guides, the CC and BC finishes that are matt finish and look stunning, as a change from traditional polished or painted frames.

[Keta]

My 30# Spectra to 10# flouro  L-2-L connections flow through #4 ring inserts.... :0)

[boon]

A lot of jig rods use a reversed, tall stripper guide, but with a relatively small ring. Jig reels tend to be tall but narrow and you don't really cast them so there is no need for a large stripper guide.

This image kinda illustrates it:

[steelfish]

I must admit that I just finished to build a jigging rod using an "unknow" blank that was brought by a friend, its not a blank made from a jigging company but since it has a great bent and its solid glass he wanted me to built it after those professional jigging rods as those jigstars, OTI, etc.

He already had the blank and wanted me to use those Deepdrawn Pacbay guides because of the look and price, I installed a 20 size as striper guide and then 16 size to start the transition of the acid wrap, continued with a 12 size to finally use 10 size as runners under the blank, the 20 size eventho its not that hight and with small ring as those called "low raider guides" it works for the intended purpose of keeping the line outta the blank it just doesnt look like those high class slow pith jigging rods, so, I think it looks and works good, nothing that might affect the jigging technique to my understanding.

so, Gus, the stripper guide size depends on the reel that you think will be mostly used on that particular rod, if the reel sits already pretty high on the reelseat and its tall you might go with a normal or lower size guide as stripper, if the reel sits low on the reelseat and its small well you might have to install the stripper guide the closest you can to the foregrip and find a guide with the ring tall enough to keep the line from touching the foregrip when performing some stating tests.

[gstours]

Thank all,  for steering my boat 🚣‍♀️.   The photos in the Jigstar site were helpful in the visual part.
  They turn the stripper guide around,  what is this for ?
  I will use a narrow Boss or narrow tallish Avet typical jig reel and as the photo below shows place the stripper fairy close to the fore grip I guess. 
  I prefer the wider type of trigger on the reel seat.   The Fugi reelseats in ads like DPS or PSS Fugi in computer pics look narrow like a bass/steelhead rod app.....
  Any ideas here? 

[boon]

  They turn the stripper guide around,  what is this for ?

Gets the ring closer to the grip, I guess? With these parabolic blanks the line can cut into the foregrip if they don't have a tall stripper close to the grip.

[Jeri]

The basic guide type being shown is a Fuji Low Rider, though some other companies have copied them. They were first designed to cope with line wraps on guides for surf rods using spinning reels and braid, whereby the first and sometimes second guide were reversed. The system works very well, however boat rod designers have since found that the largest 2 sizes (20 & 16), work very well as stripper guides for various boat rods, as they have a very tall frame, and are more robust than other tall frame guides.

We use these guides extensively on our surf rods, but back as far as 2001, I built boat rods with these guides, because of their ability to hold the line well away from the blank under upper scale loadings.

It just goes to show that solutions in one very distinct aspect of angling can equally be used i other aspects to cure different problems.

[gstours]

Thanks again for the comments.   Yes it,s sorta making sense now.... .  I have complained before about the line cuts in the fore grip butt thought these scars were kinda cool evidence of who won the knife fight.......
  I like the smaller dia ring and height of the Low Riders by Fugi and think its the way for me to go.
Next question if I do a spiral wrap as planned should i switch after the first tall Low rider and go to another type for the next two,  and then under the rod (5.5ft) with runner guide single footers?   I think the side transition spiral guides could be shorter,  butt do the higher guides help torque the rod to the left and fulfill the design of the spiral rod "advantage in design"?
  Any comments will be welcome.   

[boon]

Have a look at pictures of the Jig Star Twisted Sista as a guide. The second generation (reddish-brown) probably being a better option



Things to note:
Only 3 guides back from the tip are single foot. All the transition guides are dual foot.
The guide immediately before the stripper is clocked slightly past centre to clockwise (looking from the butt). This makes the line come through the middle of the stripper guide and improves line-lay. If all your transition guides go anti-clockwise the line will come through the side of the stripper guide and you will end up with line stacking on one side of the reel.

[Jeri]

 Would suggest that Low Riders for the first 2 guides, then something like dual leg KW guides for the full transition of the spiral, as there will ne a side load component during the transition, which might destabilse single leg guides, then once the spiral transition is complete, then single leg guides like Kl for the last section.

Hope that helps

[gstours]

Thanks again for the information.   I know its not that scary, butt I want to learn the theory firstly and then attempt a rod to test on a nice fish.
   Mr. Boon suggested,
  (looking from the butt). This makes the line come through the middle of the stripper guide and improves line-lay. If all your transition guides go anti-clockwise the line will come through the side of the stripper guide and you will end up with line stacking on one side of the reel.

   I,m not sure what is meant from the above text?  So i,ll re ask.
  The guide immediately before the stripper is clocked slightly past centre to clockwise (looking from the butt). This makes the line come through the middle of the stripper guide and improves line-lay. If all your transition guides go anti-clockwise the line will come through the side of the stripper guide and you will end up with line stacking on one side of the reel.
    Below is some info i copied from the computer forums that I could find.   Is line stacking more of a problem with non levelwind reels?

  I read somewhere that having the line lay more to the left, (rh crank) its better as the thumb can easier push the line to the right of the spool if needed.



On some rods where you are repeatedly removing and retrieving only a small amount of line, like on a bass casting rod, and there is little chance of ever emptying a reel and having to retrieve an entire spool of line, the small amount of stacking to one side is negligable, especially if the person who fills the reel pre-stacks it slightly to the opposite side when the reel is filled.

On the trolling rods I build, line stacking is a prime concern with non level line reels because a large predator fish can strip 200-400 yards, not feet, of line from the reel. A few years back, I got a call from a charter captain looking for help because over the winter he made himself a set of spiral wrapped rods and he followed one of the plans that suggested about a 10 degree offset in the direction of the spiral. The first big fish of the season on one of these rods stripped off about 300 yards of line on its initial run. Later, when the customer had the fish about 40-50 feet from the transom of the boat, the customer told the captain he had a problem, he couldn't turn the reel handle. The Captain discovered the line had stacked to one side so severely that the line was binding on the inside of the frame crossbars. I ended up having to re-tie the first couple guides on every rod to correct the problem.

I think the topics of when, how, and why to vary away from the traditional spiral systems are topics that have not been well examined yet. There's also seems to be two schools of thought about whether the line path through the spiral should be as straight as possible or a second concept that the line should bend somewhat at the guide. The straight line approach probably works best with hand-held casting rods, and the latter seems better suited to rods that are heavily loaded while fighting fish. A third dichotomy seems to be with guide sizing for the actual reduction; some approach this from a gradual standpoint (16,12, 10, while others might have just two guide sizes a larger stripper and then immediately go to running guides for all the rest of the guides.

I think what we should be taking from all this is that we should not be using any of the "systems" without forethought as to how the rod will be used. A lot of the systems were developed for casting rods and do not translate well to rods used for trolling or fighting large fish. The general concept of getting the guides underneath the blank is the key, how you get the line there is best dictated by what the rod is built to do. When I build a spiral trolling rod, I spend a LOT of time tinkering with the guide location and angles and I try to simulate the effect of loading a rod to take into consideration everything from landing a small undersized fish, to a "screamer" that nearly empties the reel. Just like every other rod build, spiral wrapped blanks have a story to tell - you just have to experiment from the traditional spiral "systems" to know what to look for, and which factors are important considerations for your particular build.

One last thought is how long the reel will be matched with the rods. If it's probably going to be a lifetime pairing, then running the line through the rod to see how the two work together as a team to either prevent stacking (or possibly cause stacking - for non-levelwinds) is probably a solid approach. For me, this sometimes is not a concern because some of the captains I build for have affiliations as pro-staffers with reel companies, and the reels sometimes change from year to year. If this is the case, I try to cover future reels by assuring that I place the stripper guide so that the line is centered above the blank. I'm doing more of that now, even with the non-charter customers as the guys who can afford custom rods tend to update their reels somewhat regularly as new models are introduced.
   And lastly on a rh crank reel is the spiral better to go in a clockwise direction?   Thanks for more information.