Raw graphite blanks: coatings, etc?

[JasonGotaProblem]

So would this blank be considered an "unfinished" blank in need of sanding or should I leave as is? Yeah, I bought a blank. I did the best I could with the pics, which isn't saying much.

[steelfish]

So would this blank be considered an "unfinished" blank in need of sanding or should I leave as is? Yeah, I bought a blank. I did the best I could with the pics, which isn't saying much.

its not considered UNFINISHED, its considered "Unsanded", those marks looks similar to some small "ribs" that are left by the mandrel where the blanks are made, those blanks are cheaper than sanded blanks because the factory didnt spent any labor hours sanding the blank, I think Jeri already explained that, I will build it as is, when I made the picture bigger those marks kind of disappear, the rib marks I have seen on other blanks are more closer and are uniformly spaced, the blank looks like having a texturized surface, yours looks kind of different.

I actually like the feel on the blank of those "ribs", if you dont feel like using it as is and dont want to deal with any of those CPxptra, etc, urethane products, take the blank to a car bodyshop and ask how much they charge you to spray it with 2k clear coat, automotive clear coat has already UV protection and flex additives, some shops will ask just for a tip for Beer and some other will want to charge a lot for that.

[Midway Tommy]

Kind of reminds me of the early Shimano Karate Sticks from the 1980s. Great rods and bring a fortune today if a guy can find one! They lightly sanded them and gave them a light finish coat. I've got one I bought new back in the day. Don't use it much any more but I like it a lot.

[Jeri]

So would this blank be considered an "unfinished" blank in need of sanding or should I leave as is? Yeah, I bought a blank. I did the best I could with the pics, which isn't saying much.

Not enough close detail in the photos to comment definitively. It looks like (when amgnified), that the carbon has been overwrapped with a woven fabric (carbon?), and that has all been sanded, to the point where in places the additional woven fabric has been sanded away - too much sanding?

If you run your finger nail down the blank, it should feel like continuous ridges, about 1mm apart - that is an unsanded blank. Some cheaper manufacturers skimp on the cellophane wrapping, and the ridges are further apart - they tend to be less tightly bound prior to çooking', and potentially weaker or less desirable.

A blank that is sanded, but unfinished will/might still show visual marks from the ribs, but will be relatively smooth to the feel/finger nail. Some blanks will have been sanded slightly more, and barely show any visual signs of the residue ribs.

As has been suggested, a 2 part '2K' finish can be applied and become a very serviceable rod, coloured or clear coating as desired. Others use a variety of finishes including some sealant products deliberately designed for sealing glass fibre applications. The choice and cost and difficulty is yours.

[oc1]

Roddy's first fiberglass rods in the 1950's were called "gator tail".  You could see and feel ridges near the tip.  They were having trouble with tips breaking until they stopped trying to sand the ridges off.  So, they tried to capitalize on what would otherwise have been considered an imperfection.  The name was reincarnated just recently in the Roddy Gator Tail rods by Penn.

If you can run the rod through your hand without finding a grainy texture or worrying about picking up a splinter, then it is probably good enough.  If you wanted, you could lightly sand with 500 to 1000 grit to make it smoother without trying to remove the ridges, 

[JasonGotaProblem]

You can see the ridges but barely feel them. I have some very fine sandpaper (1000 and 2000 grit) that i may use to refine it a bit. But other than that i don't wanna overdo it.

Edit: there are a few tiny spots that feel like there's something there. I dont know if to call it a graphite splinter or just random imperfection. I'll investigate further when I sand it a bit.

I got the guy at the shop to use their spine finding tool and mark it for me. I was fairly sure I'd found it, but theres something to be said for a bit more certainty (yes, their mark matched what I thought I'd found).

I already have Fuji alconite guides, a Fuji reel seat, thread, and some epoxy (though I question if 5 minute epoxy is what I want for the operation or do I actually want something slower drying?). I just need some cork grips and away I go.

[oldmanjoe]

  IN the second picture , the mid section looks to be sanded , almost a tiger effect look .   the tip looks slight sanded , and pretty big  !
  The glossy spirals on the top look to be the flag telegraphing through .
    I would not sand it now , or coat it .      Tape on your guide train and  lets see the load test and test cast do .
   5 minute for the grip and reel seat ,but not the thread coating .

[jurelometer]

5 minute epoxy will tend to thicken too quickly to penetrate through the wraps and level on the surface. If you want to try it, you would need to mix a fresh batch for every guide, and it will still look bad.  Oh, and 5min epoxy has terrible UV characteristics. It will start yelowing in a matter of days to weeks outdoors.

I sometimes use 5 minute epoxy to glue on a tip top, as it is not THAT permanent.  A tiny bit of heat, and it will slide off for replacment.  I don't know if this is the best practice for tip tops, there could be something better.  This is the only use I have for 5 minute epoxy in rod building.

You definitely need a specialized wrap finish.  Five minute epoxy is an option for other rod building uses  that do not see daylight, and it does set faster.  But 20 minute is stronger, and gives you much more time to clean up and verify that everything is aligned.  If you want to get by with the minimum,  you will need rod wrap finish and 20 min epoxy, plus something that can be unbonded to glue on the tip.  

For attaching the reel seats, I prefer paste epoxy.  It stays where you put it.  PC-7 or PC-11 are my favorites, and I find many uses for paste epoxy beyond rod building.

For gluing cork rings together, I recently  switched to a highly water resistant wood glue that sands down well. I use Titebond III.  Before  wood glue, I was using 20 minute epoxy, which held well, but had more visible  joints, and was too hard, making it harder to get a smooth handle without ridges.

I use paste epoxy to glue an assembled cork grip to the blank.  For foam grips, I use 20 minute epoxy.  The liquid epoxy works like a lube, and there are tricks to sliding the grip down in a single motion, so you can use a surprisingly small diameter hole and get a nice tight fit.  A bit of hot air blown into the grip hole takes the drama out of sliding foam grips, but experienced builders that have the sizing and technique down can do this cold without getting nervous.

As for the blank surface:  Jeri's  explanation and advice  is sound.

I wouldn't worry about making the first rod build pretty.   Focus on performance and durability, and you will  already be ahead of most of the builders out there.  

But what do I know?  I believe that rods and reels are tools and not fetish items.  

-J

[Tiddlerbasher]

For the tip top I always use simple hot melt glue (from a glue gun) - it's strong enough but very easy to remove

[Rivverrat]

For the tip top I always use simple hot melt glue (from a glue gun) - it's strong enough but very easy to remove

   Extra tips & lighter, one can do tip repairs in the field. In fact any guide with blown out or cracked ring insert, below the tip, can be quickly repaired in the field doing this. On most any non cow rod... Jeff

[oc1]

These days, the glue stick they sell for rods looks the same as the high-temperature sticks for glue guns.  Way back when, the glue stick for rods were a dark brown color with paper wrapper  The ones I remember were branded Weber and Silaflex ferrule cement.  Can't say one is better than the other.

I've overheated a few rods getting the tip off and had to cut an inch off the end of the blank.  They were put on with epoxy or something other than ferrule cement.

[Midway Tommy]

I would never glue a tiptop on with epoxy. If you do good luck repairing or replacing it without breaking the rod tip. If you can't get tiptop or rod ferrule glue, a hot melt glue stick will suffice, but for $4 why not get the right stuff, a 3" stick will probably last you a lifetime. I have a 1" stick I got with my first rod build 30 years ago. It's still going and has built over 25 rods.

I always use a little Pliobond under my guides. I helps keep them in place until I get some tape to hold them in place. Plus, it never dries hard so there is a nice flexible protective layer between the guide and blank.   

[jurelometer]

I do not do enough rods to claim with certainty what is "best" for tip top cement, but 5 minute epoxy is regularly used by builders, especially with bigger rods.  I have replaced a few epoxied tips, and have never damaged the blank. The trick is to  first remove any wraps and finish that overlap the tip, and then heat the barrel, pulling  on the tip while rotating the blank.  Using a candle for a heat source comes in handy if you don't have three hands.  If you do it right, the epoxy fails right at the contact point with the barrel, and the blank is barely warm when the tip pops off. It has to be five minute epoxy though, not the strong stuff.

The problem with regular glue gun glue is that it starts soft, and gets softer with heat, well below the melting point.  In hot climates, this can be a problem, especially if there is heavy twisting loads (more likely on conventional rods).  The amber colored ferrule cement has the same issues, but starts harder, and takes more heat to get soft. 

A heat melt cement that easier to remove migh be a fine choice for a bluegill spinning rod or trout fly rod in  moderate climates, but might not be the best choice for a big game rod in the tropics.

And BTW, lots of factory rod builds fail in hot humid climates.  Usually it is the reel seat or grips coming loose.

-J

[Jeri]

I'd concur with Jurelometer, stay away from hot melt in any rod that is likely to be used where temperatures go much above 35 degrees C; seen it happen too often on beaches and on rivers here in Africa, which isn't that much hotter than anywhere else.

Have literally replaced 1000's of tips, where both hot melt and 2 part resin have been used, with only the occasional mishap, usually because the builder before used a tip too tight. Replacements are all done with 2 part epoxy. Another down side of hot melt glues that we have experienced is the silicone content, if it gets near unfinished threadwork, the finishing resin might well not set, a particular problem on all new builds at the tip.

On the choice of epoxy resins, have found the time factor/ setting time to be of little importance to the final strength when using some of the better quality products, cheaper products just will fail. The biggest failing of some 2 part epoxy resins, is that they are not waterproof, and it is the ingress of water that causes failure. Better adhesion can always be achieved with slightly roughing up the surface, especially inside a tubular reel seat.

[Midway Tommy]

Are you totally confused yet, Jason?    Just jump in with both feet. There's enough rod building information out there on the interwebby to get you through the process and a decent rod on your first build.    My dad had a couple of sayings that have stuck with me since I was a kid.    "Any job worth doing is worth doing well", "There is a reason they put erasers on pencils", "I seldom learned much when I did something right but I learned a helluva lot when I did something wrong", and, "The difference between a wood butcher and a carpenter is that a carpenter knows how to fix his screwups." Dive right in, the worst thing that can happen is your first rod turns out crappy. You'll learn a few things and your next one, or two, or three will be quite a bit better.