alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Raw graphite blanks: coatings, etc?
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
February 27, 2021, 12:42:22 AM *
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Author Topic: Raw graphite blanks: coatings, etc?  (Read 1016 times)
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JasonGotaPenn
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« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2021, 12:50:30 AM »

I'm far from the most experienced here but I've also only ever lost rings on double footers. But then my sample size is not large enough to draw any conclusions. In fact I just popped one on a st croix last week, but they're sending me a whole new rod so thats ok.

It seems many of you have confirmed my position that most the reasons for double footers are not based on the actual fighting of fish but other threats. But then most my fishing is done from land with nobody else around, so my tastes are less durability driven.

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« Reply #61 on: February 23, 2021, 12:58:41 AM »


 .... Alex:  I  personally would not use single foot guides for a rod intended to be fished on  a panga.  Just too harsh an environment.

And sorry, I did not mean to infer that you were over-advocating single footers.    Just that I see as they become more popular, more fishermen are looking for them without being aware of the tradeoffs.
........so I would still rather step on one of these than a single footer, but you both have convinced me that it is not as cut-and-dry as I originally presented it.
-J

dont worry J, my idea of using single foot on an inshore casting reel is mainly because I saw some single foot guides recently that have a thick frame and are pretty short in height, pretty different scenario from those regular thin frame and flexible single foot guides that I saw on many freshwater before, Im talking about K guides from Fuji, stripper guide would be a regular K model double foot guide as well as the next 2 guides for the transition to the bottom because its were most of the force is applied from moving the guide from the top to the bottom of the blank and actually will hold any hit better, then Install all the running guides of same model KT single foot, actually since I can build and repair my own rods I less worried of having a guide broken by any accident on the boat  Grin Cool
I need to say that If I ended up doing it that way its not because of saving weight or anything like that but just for the kicks, that idea started after I finished to build the rod for Gfish 4 guides from the tip are single foot but I needed some lighter guides there because the blank was pretty thin and light in the last 3rd of the blank, so I installed some Fuji L guides, which are also pretty short in height and the frame is not that thin, the rest are double foot LN fuji guides, then I had one of those famous "what if" moment but I try to keep any "what if" idea to my own rods LOL.



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steelfish
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« Reply #62 on: February 23, 2021, 01:07:47 AM »

I'm far from the most experienced here but I've also only ever lost rings on double footers. But then my sample size is not large enough to draw any conclusions. In fact I just popped one on a st croix last week, but they're sending me a whole new rod so thats ok.

St croix did good on sending you a whole new rod just because you popped a ceramich on a guide, that rod is trashed! 100% totall lost as an insured company would said, why dont you send me that rod so I can use it to test some paints , wraps, epoxies, etc
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JasonGotaPenn
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« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2021, 01:10:45 AM »

I'm far from the most experienced here but I've also only ever lost rings on double footers. But then my sample size is not large enough to draw any conclusions. In fact I just popped one on a st croix last week, but they're sending me a whole new rod so thats ok.

St croix did good on sending you a whole new rod just because you popped a ceramich on a guide, that rod is trashed! 100% totall lost as an insured company would said, why dont you send me that rod so I can use it to test some paints , wraps, epoxies, etc
I totally would but a coworker already called it. In order to send a new one they made me break the old one.
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Jeri
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« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2021, 01:37:20 AM »

Several aspects have come from out move towards greater use of single leg guides, even though our main work is in long surf rods, our fishing environment is quite harsh on tackle as rods are mounted on the front of 4x4 vehicles and driven at speed over desert and beaches, with rods often crashing into each other.

First big issue was the size of the stripper single leg, and the speeds of line in the casts, we found that we could come down a size with a two leg stripper guide, when compared to a single leg stripper. This has been put down to the potential for frame flex during casting, and the loads on a single leg stripper guide. Especially with Fuji KL guides, because we needed the height of the guide for best performance.

Insert problems have been near zero, when compared to 2 leg guides in the same situation, so no drawback from their use due to damage. The shorter Fuji KT guides are very robust.

More because of overall performance, we have now adopted a strategy of using a hybrid combination of guides on nearly all our client rods, both 2 leg and single leg. The single legs introduce the most performance gain over the top half of the rod, while 2 leg guides allow us to keep guide sizes down to optimum at the lower section of the rod. That said we are looking to get guide sizes down to an absolute minimum without loss of performance (casting distance). On a personal test rod, I have been using size 16 as the stripper guide, followed by size 10 & 8 2 leg guides, then a series of 3 size 8 single leg guides, followed by 3 size 6 single leg guides. The rod casts impressively, and never a single issue with guides pulling out, inserts cracking or any of the other drawbacks mentioned.

If I were spiral wrapping rods, I would still have no issue with using single leg guides over any of the transition zone. Nor would I have reservations about using single leg guides on a small boat situation, for years ago I built myself a couple of travel rods for use in Ski boats, where we launched from the beach through the surf. On those rods I used the single leg Fuji guides with the oval insert, old fashioned now, but I still have those rods in prime condition, though they haven't been used for a few years, it was near 20 years ago that we built them, and they performed without problems in that fishing environment, even on game species like Sailfish and Marlin.
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« Reply #65 on: February 23, 2021, 01:55:35 AM »

.........we have now adopted a strategy of using a hybrid combination of guides on nearly all our client rods, both 2 leg and single leg. The single legs introduce the most performance gain over the top half of the rod, while 2 leg guides allow us to keep guide sizes down to optimum at the lower section of the rod............................... On a personal test rod, I have been using size 16 as the stripper guide, followed by size 10 & 8 2 leg guides, then a series of 3 size 8 single leg guides, followed by 3 size 6 single leg guides. The rod casts impressively, and never a single issue with guides pulling out, inserts cracking or any of the other drawbacks mentioned.


pretty cool, that what I was saying and try to accomplish maybe not because of the same reasons but pretty cool its been already done and tested with good results
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Jeri
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« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2021, 06:41:38 AM »

.........we have now adopted a strategy of using a hybrid combination of guides on nearly all our client rods, both 2 leg and single leg. The single legs introduce the most performance gain over the top half of the rod, while 2 leg guides allow us to keep guide sizes down to optimum at the lower section of the rod............................... On a personal test rod, I have been using size 16 as the stripper guide, followed by size 10 & 8 2 leg guides, then a series of 3 size 8 single leg guides, followed by 3 size 6 single leg guides. The rod casts impressively, and never a single issue with guides pulling out, inserts cracking or any of the other drawbacks mentioned.


pretty cool, that what I was saying and try to accomplish maybe not because of the same reasons but pretty cool its been already done and tested with good results

I will be honest and say that when we first embarked on this line of development, and looking at the rod as it came out of the dryer, I was certainly suspicious of the fact that the 1mm diameter leader knot was going to rip all those little guides off..............  Angry

But, after the first cast went away with hardly any sound at all, and the rod and guides were intact, I soon started to have faith in the scheme, and not looked back since; though it does make me think whether there would be any tangible benefit to going even smaller.
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« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2021, 07:26:38 AM »

I only use single foot.  The biggest disadvantage is more frequent tip wraps. Maybe that's not the right term, but I mean when slack line wraps around the rod and gets caught on the guides.  The biggest advantage is light weight.  PacBay single foot with stainless inserts size 3 to 10 cost and weigh almost nothing.  Never had one jerked off the rod or broken, but have had to bend several back upright after getting smashed.
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JasonGotaPenn
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« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2021, 01:57:47 PM »

I've done a bit of torture testing. Very low tech approach. Pretty much just held by tip and butt and bent past 90. My spring scale is of the fish weighing variety not one that marks the max force achieved so I didn't really get to quantify it. But I did go to about 100° with no signs of trouble. No sounds, etc. Felt like it could go further but I didnt want this to be a destructive test.

I feel satisfied that I can land some fish on it. We'll see.
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« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2021, 05:57:12 PM »

Forgive me for going back on topic but I found myself wondering something. Given that guides end up getting replaced from time to time, would super good adhesion between the wrap epoxy and the blank be less than ideal? I mean of course you want it to stay in place, but you'd likely eventually wanna remove it safely, right?

Part of this line of thinking comes from frequently seeing it repeated that if you try to relocate guides on a factory rod, its hard to get it to look good after that. And I found myself wondering why that is, and if there's a better approach. and the above is a question that fell outta that rabbit hole i went down.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 07:09:55 PM by JasonGotaPenn » Logged

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« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2021, 06:07:26 PM »


.... Part of this line of thinking comes from frequently seeing it repeated that if you try to relocate guides on a factory rod, its hard to get it to look good after that. ...


 I have heard the same & it's simply not true. Unless skills aren't up to the task... Jeff 
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« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2021, 06:44:28 PM »

The Dutch Uncle in me , Suggested to get a 10-15 dollar pole to get all the mistakes out of the way for a good stick .
  And your little shadow would be happy with a daddy made stick .     Tongue
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« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2021, 06:50:58 PM »

Finish fade is usually biggest issue, especially if the rod spends a lot of time in the sun.
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