alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Anti Reverse
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
December 06, 2021, 01:42:15 AM *
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Rivverrat
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« on: February 18, 2021, 11:21:21 PM »

             Been looking at the IRT Reels for sometime now. I wish someone could explain how, with no anti reverse other than the bearing what's different about the anti reverse bearing vs. the same type bearing used in other
       reels ?     Every reel out now days other than the Accurates will blow out this bearing some what quickly when used at 15 lbs. of drag & above. I say this not seeing any back up ratchet on the schematic.

      You all are claiming 20 lbs. of drag as a sweet spot. Well above what most all other makers anti reverse bearing will tolerate for any length of time.

       What keeps this from happening with your reels ? I also find that 1/2 or more people aren't using the drag level they claim or any where close. Never owning or using drag scales themselves or using weight to know for
       sure what the reel is set at. ... Jeff

    
  
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 12:55:55 AM by Rivverrat » Logged
jurelometer
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2021, 01:08:46 AM »

            Been looking at the IRT Reels for sometime now. I wish someone could explain how, with no anti reverse other than the bearing what's different about the anti reverse bearing vs. the same type bearing used in other
       reels ?     Every reel out now days other than the Accurates will blow out this bearing some what quickly when used at 15 lbs. of drag & above.

      You all are claiming 20 lbs. of drag as a sweet spot. Well above what most all other makers anti reverse bearing will tolerate for any length of time.

       What keeps this from happening with your reels ? I also find that 1/2 or more people aren't using the drag level they claim or any where close. Never owning or using drag scales themselves or using weight to know for
       sure what the reel is set at. ... Jeff

    


It may not be fair to compare spinners to conventional reels with the anti-reverse on the main gear shaft.  Most spinning reels that claim high drag numbers have the anti reverse system ahead of the gears, and therefore the gear ratio is nor working against the anti-reverse system. 

But I do agree with the general question.

I don't want to single out IRT reels.  All of the reel manufacturers make claims about max drag without providing much of the important details.  Reels  from low end to premium manufacturers often fall well short of the published specifications.  So we  have questions when a new reel with high drag members is released.

And  since we have an IRT rep here (welcome!), I also cannot resist adding a few polite questions on the details.

First of all I would like to note that the discussions on this site  usually look at  max drag  in one of two ways .  First is is short-burst, where we are stopping a fish from reaching a snag.  The second is extended runs of large fish, where we might come close to getting spooled.

1.  Can the reel spool be completely emptied at with a full spool drag setting at the advertised limit in 3-5 minutes without excessive reel wear or drag degradation (sticky, etc. ), or if the max drag specification is for short burst, what is the maxiumum extended drag setting?

2.  What size anti-reverse bearings (roller clutch) are used? Is it correct that these are standard dimension roller clutch bearings?

3.  What materials are used for the main and pinion gears, and what is the maximum safe winding force (drag equivalent) that can be used?

4. The majority of the reel repair experts here prefer to use drag grease on carbon fiber drag washers (and many manufacturers are switching over). Skipping the reasons for doing this for now, does IRT grease the carbon fiber/Kevlar blend drag washers or have a position on greasing?

Feel free to pick a representative saltwater model (600?).  Answers to any or all questions would be welcome, and a refreshing change from what the rest of the industry is (not) telling us.

-J
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Rivverrat
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2021, 04:05:05 AM »

    Drags are greased. gears are aluminum main & bronze pinion. I get the force on the anti reverse being diff between conventional & spinning. However I've had issues in this area while fishing 3 top of the line spinners for their time. Years ago I'd saved my money to buy what I thought at the time was going to be the best reels for my use, 3 Stella's. It didn't go well.

  I've sworn spinners off for heavy use since. But have a need for one now that my fishing will be more multiple species than before... Jeff
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 04:58:18 PM by Rivverrat » Logged
oc1
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2021, 09:12:45 AM »

Do those roller clutch bearings have a rating?  Do they fail because a rated load has been exceeded?  Or, maybe they only fail when they get grungy.
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SteveL
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2021, 12:59:33 PM »

Do those roller clutch bearings have a rating?  Do they fail because a rated load has been exceeded?  Or, maybe they only fail when they get grungy.

They may stop working when the grease thickens and or grit gets into it, but so far I am doing pretty well with the INA IAR bearings in the Ambassadeurs.   I ordered 4 replacement bearings for 4 ebay specials with non-working IARS, and before they arrived, I had the bearings cleaned and working.  Grit came out of two of them.   I had another that was working fine in a reel that had been in saltwater, but was grungy so I cleaned it.   Noticed a bit of rust on the flange that sits just below the star drag, so I scratched it with my fingernail, and the whole flange flaked off exposing the nylon cage.   The kicker is that the bearing still works fine.  



So from what I've been seeing,  over torquing to the point of damaging the cage or pins is about the only way they truly fail.   Just slipping or not engaging because of old grease, too much grease, too much dirt and gunk can be addressed with cleaning.   I suppose rusted pins would count as failure, too.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 01:14:39 PM by SteveL » Logged
Rivverrat
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2021, 02:43:36 PM »

Do those roller clutch bearings have a rating?  Do they fail because a rated load has been exceeded?  Or, maybe they only fail when they get grungy.

     Steve, Yes. However I dont know what that rating is in this case & yes to both of your other questions. This only applies to other reels I've used. Most being of conventional style. The anti reverse in this case is sealed along with the drag group to some degree.
 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 05:06:13 PM by Rivverrat » Logged
irt_reels
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2021, 07:54:57 PM »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your patience and sorry for not responding sooner. Hopefully I can answer all of the questions posed here.

In regards to Rivverrat's comment about our gear material - our 200 series up through our 500DD series have both a stainless steel main gear and pinion gear. Above that, our dual drag 600, 700, and 800 series reels are also stainless pinion and main gear. In the 600, 700, and 800 series, the single drag models have a stainless main gear and bronze pinion. Within the next year, all of our reels will be stainless main and pinion gears.

I'll address some other questions while referencing the IRT600 (as requested by jurelometer below).

With 25# of drag (or more), a 600 series reel can be completely emptied without burning up the clutch bearing. Our anti-reverse is a one-way clutch bearing, so unlike many others that have on/off switches for the anti-reverse, ours are a simple compact unit with built-in springs. There is a much lower chance of failure as ours is a simple unit without many interacting parts and we do not grease our clutch heavily, which allows for the proper amount of friction. This also allows it to be much less susceptible to temperature affects as well. Other brands that do not have an on/off switch are similar to ours. The only real difference is brand of bearing and what has been tested to work best in our reels. If you've had problems with A/R bearings burning up at 15# of drag, I can say with confidence that our reels (even as small as our 200) are more than up to the challenge.

No reel manufacturer will tell you that you can maintain locked down drag constantly and expect your reel to perform flawlessly forever. While the max drag ratings on all of our reels are different, utilizing 25# of drag on an IRT600 is more than safe for a long duration. Our published max drag levels are generally for short bursts, but our reels can take a full emptying at that level of drag without showing wear. We have many guides who have used our reels daily at heavy drag ratings (particularly our 500 Dual Drag) series and fight large fast fish without wear on the reel - if properly maintained.

If a specific question has not been answered, feel free to ask it. I'll try to answer the best I can.
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Rivverrat
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2021, 09:00:10 PM »

      Ben, Thank You ! This is greatly appreciated by myself & other members here.

  Also would like to apologize for giving wrong info on the gear material used. This was told to me by someone who claimed to have been using & servicing his IRT reels for sometime.

It also explains what some have said about gear noise. A lot of us here are aware stainless can make a bit more noise when compared to gears made from a softer material. But longevity in most cases is increased so it is in my mind a good trade off for the gain in durability received... Jeff
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 09:10:42 PM by Rivverrat » Logged
irt_reels
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2021, 09:16:03 PM »

Not a problem at all. If that person's reel was more than a year old, it is likely that the pinion was bronze. We only made the switch about 18 months ago. Reels that are returned for service are automatically upgraded to stainless pinions if they are not already. Always looking to improve!
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irt_reels
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2021, 01:09:48 PM »

Also, regarding your comment about the gear noise - It's important to note that our current gearing is far superior to what it was 12-18 months ago. While stainless does make a little bit of noise, we have significantly lessened this effect and make a gear set that feels incredible compared to where we used to be. We've changed the way we machine our pinion gears to clean up the teeth significantly, thus making a quieter, more smooth gear.
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